33 20 669 https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/9c370c2ade14307e6a1b7cac51fd997a.mp4 8c86d9871f18be29287a1c8d06288d8e https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/6100ee390b88b4e5687d17fa8a967f00.pdf c25b26bcfe904aa3a2707aed1621f55c PDF Text Text Oklahomans for Equality Oral History Interview with Sue Welch and Marcy Smith Interview Conducted by Toby Jenkins Date: Jan 16, 2026 Transcribed By: Dennis Neill using Reduct.Video, February 28, 2026 Restrictions: Interviewee requested: N/A Oklahomans for Equality History Project 621 E. 4th Street Tulsa, OK. 74120 918.743.4297 historyproject@okeq.org 1 �About Sue Welch and Marcy Smith Summary In this engaging conversation, Marcy Smith and Sue Welch share their personal journeys, highlighting their experiences growing up in Oklahoma and navigating their identities as members of the LGBTQ+ community. Marcy recounts her childhood in Tulsa, her education at Oklahoma Christian College, and her early awareness of her sexual orientation. She reflects on the challenges faced by LGBTQ+ individuals in a conservative environment, including the need for stealth and the importance of finding community. Sue, on the other hand, shares her upbringing in Ponca City, her academic journey at OSU, and the pivotal moment when she realized her feelings for her best friend. Both women discuss their relationships, the evolution of their identities, and the significance of community support in their lives. As they delve deeper into their experiences, Marcy and Sue recount their involvement with Oklahomans for Human Rights and the development of the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center. They reflect on the challenges of coming out to their families, the societal pressures they faced, and the importance of creating a safe space for LGBTQ+ individuals in Tulsa. Their stories are filled with humor, resilience, and a sense of belonging, showcasing the power of love and community in overcoming adversity. In this episode, Marcy Smith and Sue Welch share their inspiring journey of establishing a community center for the LGBTQ+ community in Tulsa, Oklahoma. They recount the grassroots efforts that began in the late 2 �1980s, during the AIDS crisis, when they faced skepticism and pushback from within their own community. Despite the challenges, they successfully organized fundraising events, such as house parties and the Wild Hearts Ball, to raise awareness and funds. Their determination led to significant milestones, including securing a $10,000 grant from a New York foundation and eventually purchasing a permanent space for their community center, which became a hub for support, celebration, and activism. The conversation highlights the importance of physical spaces for community gathering, especially in a time when virtual connections are prevalent. Marcy and Sue emphasize the need for ongoing support and engagement within the community, particularly in light of recent political challenges. They reflect on the center's role in pivotal moments for LGBTQ+ rights, including the legalization of same-sex marriage and the repeal of discriminatory laws. Their message is clear: maintaining a physical home for the community is essential for fostering connection, support, and resilience against adversity. Keywords LGBTQ+, Tulsa, Oklahomans for Human Rights, coming out, community support, Dennis R. Neill Equality Center, personal stories, Marcy Smith, Sue Welch, LGBTQ+ history, LGBTQ+ community, Tulsa, fundraising, community center, activism, AIDS crisis, grassroots efforts, Wild Hearts Ball, same-sex marriage, community support Takeaways ● "I knew pretty early probably 10 or 11 years of age." ● "You just find your people and can do things." ● "It was kind of a cover, right?" ● "I felt like I was living in the 1950s." ● "It was a pivotal thing to see that." ● "I think they were upset that they were having to deal with it." ● "My family has always been very progressive, very liberal." ● "We moved into a duplex that I had previously moved into." ● "We developed a campaign for a permanent visible presence." 3 �● "It was fantastic because I think we had such a large group." It was a very grassroots campaign, one person at a time. ● We had to prove ourselves first before getting large donations. ● We wanted to bring disparate groups together behind the same cause. ● The community bought into this; it was a beautiful thing. ● We had to create a physical space for gathering and support. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 01:16 Marcy's Childhood and Education 12:10 Sue's Upbringing and Early Relationships 24:00 Finding Community in Tulsa 38:55 Coming Out to Family and Friends 46:58 Involvement with Oklahomans for Human Rights 48:21 Grassroots Beginnings: Building Support 52:28 Creating Community Events for Fundraising 01:00:10 Challenges and Triumphs in Fundraising 01:08:50 Finding a Permanent Home for the Center 01:18:31 The Grand Opening and Community Impact 01:25:42 Reflections on Community and Future Challenges __________________________________________________________________ ____ 4 �Sue Welch and Marcy Smith Oral History Interview Jan 16, 2026 Toby Jenkins: Today's date is Friday, January the 16th, 2026, at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center in downtown Tulsa, Oklahoma. And we have Marcy Smith and Sue Welch. For our archival purposes, would you please give us your name, your age as today's date. Marcy Smith: Me, Marcy Smith, 62, gonna be 63 this year. Sue Welch: Sue Welch, 64. Toby Jenkins: Joining me in the interview today is the founder of Oklahomans for Equality, Dennis R. Neill, and Amanda Thompson, who is the archivist at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center, which houses the Nancy and Joe MacDonald Rainbow Library [where this interview is being conducted]. Marcy, tell us a little bit about your childhood and your family. When were you born? Marcy Smith: October 10th, 1963, right here in Tulsa. Toby Jenkins: What hospital? Marcy Smith: Well, I thought I was born in St. John, but recently, I found out I was born in Hillcrest. Toby Jenkins: And so your family was from Tulsa? Marcy Smith: Yes, my mom's family eventually was from Tulsa, but they had spent some time in Texas for quite some time. And then my dad was a sales rep for Skelly Oil Company and moved around a lot. I was born in Tulsa, and then 11 months later, my sister Karen was born in Joplin. And then 18 months after that, my sister Cindy was born in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Then we hung out in Arkansas for a little bit and then came back to Tulsa, so yeah. Toby Jenkins: Did you go to school? Marcy Smith: Went to- yes, went to elementary school, where the center now is for- at 11th and Utica, went to Jefferson Elementary School, which does not exist anymore, because of the center now, so. Toby Jenkins: The center for those with physical challenged? Marcy Smith: Yes, yes, not Oklahomans for Equality Center. 5 �Marcy Smith: So went to school there, and then we moved way out south in 1971 to Jenks, which was- Woodland Hills Mall didn't even exist. That 71st and Memorial, it was a gravel road still. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, and it was called Jenks USA. Marcy Smith: That's right, it was Jenks USA, and it was way the heck out there. So we moved out to Jenks and then finished school at Jenks High School, and thenToby Jenkins: And what year did you graduate? Marcy Smith: Graduated 1982. Toby Jenkins: 1982. Marcy Smith: Then went toToby Jenkins: How many were in your graduating class at Jenks? Marcy Smith: I think there were 482 people, something like that, yeah. And then went to Oklahoma Christian College for a couple of years. Toby Jenkins: Which is locatedMarcy Smith: In Edmond, Oklahoma. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Marcy Smith: Still is. Toby Jenkins: And it's a disciple’s college? Marcy Smith: It's Church of Christ. Toby Jenkins: Church of Christ, okay. And that's where you went for your undergraduate degree? Marcy Smith: Couple years there, and the reason I went was that my best friend from high school was Church of Christ, and I didn't have a- it's like, "Okay, I'll go there, that's fine." And ran into probably one of the largest groups of gays and lesbians on the planet. It's kind of a joke. Anyway, although it was not a veryToby Jenkins: At the Christian University? Marcy Smith: At the Christian College. 6 �Toby Jenkins: Right. Marcy Smith: Lots of gays and lesbians, lots of people trying to escape their parents in the small town. So it was kind of a- I guess it was what you would call a beard, right? It was a cover. So they're like, "Oh yeah, we're gonna go to a Christian's college and fix ourselves." But that was not happening there. So anyway. Although when they caught someone, it was pretty brutal how they dealt with getting rid of students at the college when they found out they were gay or lesbian, so. Toby Jenkins: So you went thereMarcy Smith: I was there for a couple years, and my best friend was in love with a guy back in Tulsa. She just couldn't finish- she had to come back to Tulsa. So there really wasn't anything for me to stay there for, so I came back to Tulsa and finished my degree at the University of Tulsa.Graduated in 1986 with an MIS degree, which was one of the very first computer science and business majors at the University of Tulsa. We were the second class, and I think there were only about seven of us. Toby Jenkins: And that would have been what year? Marcy Smith: That was 1986. Toby Jenkins: Okay, and how big was the computer in those days? Marcy Smith: Well, soToby Jenkins: It wasn't on- it couldn't be on your desk yet, could it? I think- yeah. Marcy Smith: Well, no, no, yeah. No, but it was heading that way. It was heading that way. So, no, they were pretty big, pretty big computers. But I pushed it as long as I possibly could, so that I didn't have to use punch cards to do my programming. And thankfully, I got out of that, so. But computers as we would know them are desktops. I think that was around 1991-1992, or something like that, when that became kinda mainstream. Toby Jenkins: And did you go work for a company, or were youMarcy Smith: Fresh out of college, I ended up- I had two job offers. One was to be a tape hanger for American Airlines in their computer room. The other was to be a programmer analyst for Tulsa County. My dad thought I made a really horrible mistake by not working for American Airlines on the third shift hanging tapes, which was like an aerobic exercise job at the time. 7 �You can imagine their processing center and imagine their processing center today. But yeah, he thought I was silly for- 'cause I would've gotten fine benefits and stuff like that, so. But I never looked back on that. It's not what I wanted to do, so. Toby Jenkins: And how long were you with Tulsa County? Marcy Smith: About 18 years. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Toby Jenkins: And so are you gonna be able to draw your Tulsa County pension? Marcy Smith: As a matter of fact, in November of 2025, I got my first retirement check. Marcy Smith: So yeah, I'm happy about that. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. They didn't pay us much, but we've got pension. Marcy Smith: No. But yeah, the benefits are really good. Yeah, but when I left Tulsa County in 2004, that rule of '80, I thought, there's just no way I'm gonna reach that, right? So that was 22 years ago. But as it got closer and closer, I was really happy about it, so we'll have some fun on that. Toby Jenkins: So you encountered other lesbian and gay students. Is that when you begin to realizeMarcy Smith: No, no. I knew pretty early, probably 10 or 11 years of age. Marcy Smith: And then, just because of the climate, dated- in quotes, dated guys in high school and got asked in high school because there was some stuff going on with the girls' basketball team, which I was on the basketball team. There were several lesbians on the basketball team. And so there got to be a kind of an uproar at some point. People were being questioned. And so my parents sat me down and I just lied straight to their face, 'cause I didn't wanna be in the middle of it. So thankfully, got out of that without a whole lot of issues, so. But it was a- Jenks back then, it was a pretty rural school. A lot of bubba's running around, a lot of individuals threatening people and some violence and vandalism of cars and stuff like that going on, so. So I didn't wanna call attention to it. Toby Jenkins: At college, even at your Christian college, I mean, did you hang out with those individuals and y'all just kind of were stealth atMarcy Smith: Well, yeah, you know how we are. We find our people, right? And so you hang out with your people. And so yeah, it was just a matter of just figuring out what you 8 �can and cannot do. But I will say- yeah, Oklahoma Christian College was smaller than my high school.When we went there, and I felt like I was living in the 1950s. When we got on campus, the girls dorms were locked at night, the guys were not. The guys could do whatever they wanted at night after hours on the weekend, stuff like that. I knew I wasn't gonna be long for that. It was just like, well, I'm just going here because my friend was here. And once that started happening, I just felt like I was caged in and so- but it was kind of odd environment. It kinda felt like you were in a bubble, this Christian bubble, and everything was wonderful and fine and all of that. Who knows what the administrators thought, but that wasn't what was going on behind the scenes with the students and stuff, so you just find your people and can do things. I ended up getting a job at a really nice restaurant there in Edmond called Joe Kelly's and it was a steakhouse, and people would have their high school events there and graduation and stuff like that. But I was the first- it was called a barback, so you're a bartender's assistant. Here I am going to a Christian college and I'm working at a bar, and when I would come home at night after doing my shift at the restaurant, I was literally covered in alcohol and smoke, 'cause you could smoke back then, right? At 02:00-03:00 in the morning, I had to wake up the resident assistants, this woman who took care of us at the dorm, had to wake her up at 02:00 AM in the morning, coming in just covered in alcohol. So anyway, that was kinda funny, people would do that. Toby Jenkins: Did you start socializing with this group of students who were in hiding, or did that happen when you got to TU? I mean, when did you create a clique of friends, whoMarcy Smith: When I left Oklahoma Christian College which was in Edmond, obviously, and came home to Tulsa, I really didn't stay in touch with most of them. They were from all over Oklahoma and all over the country, actually. So when I came back to Tulsa, I came back to Tulsa because I had a relationship with a woman at the time. We ended up moving in together and I finished out my degree at University of Tulsa at that point, and then just kinda started hanging out with everybody here in Tulsa, so really kinda through the softball chain of- I mean, just kinda how it was. Toby Jenkins: Lesbian day, or? Marcy Smith: Yeah, yeah, that's right, softball stuff. And then, the bars at the time and line dancing and all that kinda stuff. So you're going out to the bars andToby Jenkins: Do you remember what bars you went to? 9 �Marcy Smith: Oh. Well, I can't remember the name of the bar that was on Memorial there at 15th Street. Toby Jenkins: TNT's? Marcy Smith: No. Well, it wasn't- no, it was prior to TNT's and where people were playingyou know the name of the bar? Sue Welch: The Club. Marcy Smith: The Club, it's called The Club. So anyway, you had to knock and they open up the window and let you in, and all that kinda stuff. Toby Jenkins: And that was at 15th at Memorial? Marcy Smith: 15th, right, yeah, yeah, 15th Street, dead-ended, right into Memorial. And then, The Club was there and it was like a little house, actually. It wasn't very big. But they had an outdoor space, so volleyball and have fires and stuff like that. You can hang out outside The Club. Sue Welch: Jodie and Mary owned it. Marcy Smith: Yeah. So thenToby Jenkins: And it was a girls club? Marcy Smith: Yeah. And then you had the star, Silver Star, right? So that was 15th and Sheridan, and then TNT's. And then, theMarcy Smith: Off of Yale, what was it? 34th and Yale. There's also a club called the Crash Landing at the time [Crash Landing was at 5th and S. Lewis], that was a pretty coolToby Jenkins: So is Zippers closed by this time? Marcy Smith: No, Zippers- was it always called Zippers? I don't know if it was always called Zippers or not, but that was another place that we would go to, so. Toby Jenkins: So softball. Marcy Smith: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: And these are clubs. Marcy Smith: Yes. 10 �Toby Jenkins: Did you know anything about Oklahomans for Human Rights or pride, or? Marcy Smith: I guess it was probably real early 90s when I got involved with OHR, TOHR. That was kinda the transition time, I think, when it was moving from those names and stuff over. Specifically, I believe it was when we were over on Peoria, I think. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Marcy Smith: So that's kinda the first access in trying to assist and volunteer and stuff like that, so. Toby Jenkins: Let's put Sue on the hot seat. Marcy Smith: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: And see how similar her story is or how different it is. Before we do that, I wanna ask you, tell me about meeting Sue. Marcy Smith: It was a New Year's Eve party at a friend's house. Lots of people there, I don't know, probably 30 or 40 women, maybe more than that. And this will date us- so it was all about Trivial Pursuit. So we're playing Trivial Pursuit, it's pretty competitive. She walked in with her then-partner, and I was around a coffee table or something like that, knee-deep in the Trivial Pursuit. And I just looked up and she walked in with her then-partner. And it wasI don't know how- maybe I said something to someone like, "Who's that?" They were like, "Sue Welch and Darlene." So anyway, that's how we met, but there was something at that just initial glance. And so anyway, I'll let her tell the rest, but it was just a party. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Beautiful. Sue, where were you born and where are you from? Sue Welch: I was born in Ponca City, Oklahoma on April 30th, 1961. Dennis was born there too, it's our hometown, both of us. Marcy Smith: It's in the water. Sue Welch: Yeah. A nice, sweet little, small town, a great town to be born and raised in. Not a great town to stay, but a great town to be born and raised in. Yeah. Toby Jenkins: Were you born in the hospital there? Sue Welch: Yes. Toby Jenkins: And what was the name of that hospital? Sue Welch: Ponca City Hospital. 11 �Toby Jenkins: Okay. And tell us about your family. Sue Welch: My family, my mother's Cherokee and my dad is English. And they had a great love affair and were married till they passed and were wonderful parents. But my dad is a third-generation brick mason. Hiss grandfather, before statehood, had a brick yard in Ponca City. And he built the first brick home. So from my great-grandfather to my grandfather to my father and his brothers, it was a third-generation brick mason company, Welch Masonry Construction. Toby Jenkins: So they've been there for a while. Are there still- if you were to go to Ponca City today, are there still buildings that they built? Sue Welch: Oh, dozens and dozens, yes. Buildings and homes, yes. Yeah, you could have a Welch Masonry tour of Ponca City. Toby Jenkins: So did you go to school in Ponca City? Sue Welch: Yes, I went to Ponca City High School. And it was- we actually had a very large graduating class. It was 415 people for our graduating class. And I thought it wasToby Jenkins: So you all probably played Jenks in sports. Sue Welch: I wasn't really into sports. I don't know that. Could be. But I studied a lot. Sue Welch: Well, it may have been a little too far away. Toby Jenkins: Oh, okay. Sue Welch: Maybe at state and regionals, but not on a conference level. Sue Welch: I wouldn't have known. I went to the football games just for fun. So don't ask me any of those stats. Marcy Smith: Too popular. Sue Welch: I was the prom queen. So there's that. Toby Jenkins: Says so much. Sue Welch: But not the football queen, so. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. So what year did you graduate? Sue Welch: I graduated in 1979. 12 �Toby Jenkins: And did you go to school after that? Sue Welch: Yes, after that, I went to OSU. And in 1983, got my degree in natural sciences, my bachelor's degree in natural sciences. Loved OSU. That was great. That was where my best friend and I started having deeper feelings about each other, so…in high school and throughout a large- oh, the first half of college, my boyfriend from high school, the wrestling star, we became engaged. So in high school- in college, we were going to be married right after college. My best friend and I started becoming very, very close, and I just kept thinking, "Oh my God, I can't graduate and leave my friend. This would be horrible." And we just kept getting deeper and deeper feelings, and I thought, "What is going on here?" Sue Welch: And so I talked to my mom about it, and I said, "I think I'm going crazy or something." She said, well, honey, I can't believe that any love is wrong. And I never looked back. So I left my fiancé. Toby Jenkins: And that would've been- you would've been ... Marcy Smith: She called off the wedding. Yeah. Sue Welch: Yeah. Sue Welch: The dress was all done. The invitations were ... - yeah. It was on the way. Marcy Smith: The colors were picked, all the stuff. Toby Jenkins: The runaway bride. Marcy Smith: Yes. Sue Welch: Yes. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. How old would you've been? Sue Welch: So that would have been, let's see, right when I graduated, right at 1983. So 21, 22. Toby Jenkins: So you had this discussion with your mother. I'm just guessing there probably weren't a bunch of lesbians in Ponca City to help mentor you. Sue Welch: There may have been, but I did not know them. Toby Jenkins: Okay. 13 �Sue Welch: I didn't know anyone in the community. I didn'tToby Jenkins: It's 'cause you weren't going to softball camp. Sue Welch: That's right. My gaydar was not tuned at the time, so yeah. Toby Jenkins: You went to OSU. What was that experience like for you now that you had ended that relationship and probably were figuring out? Sue Welch: We moved into a house together, and we had a few friends, both of us. We were each other's first experience, and so neither of us knew of any community per se, but we did find a few friends, half a dozen, 10 friends that we hung out with a little bit. Then we broke up, and someone introduced me to a woman in Tulsa. And when I left OSU and came to Tulsa to establish my practice here, there was a huge community. So many people. I was just like, "Wow, this is amazing." So much so that my partner was a teacher, and my sister, when she would visit, she said, "Well, are all teachers lesbians?" So such a great, huge community. So that was fantastic to experience. Marcy Smith: Well, and you have gay guy friends to this day from OSU. Sue Welch: Well, not from a- well, they were gone at the same time. Yeah, but we didn't hang out a lot. We found each other kind of after. In Tulsa. And I was like, "I knew you in OSU." So we kind of, all of us were in hiding there once I did come out of OSU. Toby Jenkins: So you didn't really connect to the LGBTQ community at OSU. It was when you came to Tulsa. Sue Welch: Yes. Toby Jenkins: And when you say there was a huge community, what did that look like? Sue Welch: Oh my gosh. Toby Jenkins: Were there just house parties, or people went to eat together, or? Sue Welch: House parties, going to the bars, dancing, potlucks, softball. My partner was a well-respected softball umpire, so lots of softball. Of course she was. And so yeah, just a lot of socializing. A lot of socializing. Toby Jenkins: Did either of you ladies ever interact with the flag football team, the girls' flag football team? Sue Welch: No. 14 �Toby Jenkins: Okay. Well, that's who helped me come out. I always say I was raised by wolves, because the girls' flag football team. So it was a huge community, and you were in a relationship. Sue Welch: Yes. Toby Jenkins: And what was your career at this time? Sue Welch: I was licensed by the medical board as an electrologist. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Sue Welch: And I did that for 22 years in Broken Arrow and in Tulsa. Toby Jenkins: And you were in a relationship. Do you remember kinda what the environment was like for you in Tulsa, what it was like to go to gay clubs and, as you said, find so many people? Sue Welch: It was fantastic. Because I think we had so many- such a large group, I didn't recognize feeling a lot of threat. I knew some of our male counterparts were threatened. But we just didn't go to places that allowed us to be threatened. We didn't go out unless we were in big numbers. We only went to certain places. The Club was very private, very protected. So that's kind of what that was like. Toby Jenkins: And what was that like? You hit the parking lot, and the minute you walk through the doorSue Welch: Yeah, it's freedom. Yeah, freedom. Toby Jenkins: You could hold hands. Like, cheers, hey. Sue Welch: Absolutely. Toby Jenkins: You could hold hands? Yeah. Sue Welch: Yeah, freedom, absolutely. Sue Welch: But not out at work, not out to any clients, not out to friends who were not LGBT. Toby Jenkins: So I'm gonna ask you both this question, but tell me about the first time you saw Marcy. 15 �Sue Welch: So it was a party, and my partner and I walked in, and there were people playing at a table. And Marcy has these beautiful brown piercing eyes, and so I noticed her naturally. And it was probably another year after, and it was a New Year's party, and it struck midnight. And I'm a pretty private person, private physically. I'm very demonstrative, but kissing on the lips was really a personal thing for me. And it struck midnight, and Marcy just planted a kiss right on my lips. And I was like, "Wow." Marcy Smith: She wasn't the only person that I kissed. Sue Welch: Well, no. Marcy Smith: I mean, it was New Year's Eve. Everybody ... . Sue Welch: Marcy wasn't as protective of her lips as I was. So but yes, I was like, "Oh, my God." That was sparky. So yeah. And then our partners, the four of us became close friends, and you know the story. So we could not- we were inseparable. And we all four worked on our partnerships. We knew there were some feelings. But we were inseparable and just in so much pain not being able to see each other that the partnership split. AndToby Jenkins: For you all to be together? Marcy Smith: Yep. Toby Jenkins: Okay. That would've been what year? Marcy Smith: '92. Toby Jenkins: '92? Marcy Smith: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Sue Welch: In the 1900s. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. Sue Welch: In the 1900s, we got together. Toby Jenkins: So I asked both of you, and you said you found community here. You found that because you got on the Internet, right? And you looked up where the gay bars were. Marcy Smith: Oh right, because the Internet existed. No, the Internet didn't quite exist yet. Well, I guess 1992-ish is about the time it started taking off. Those were chat rooms. 16 �Toby Jenkins: Do you remember any public officials or movie stars or rockstars, who were out in open who you could look at and see, oh, this is how you- this is what it is? Sue Welch: Eventually, Lilly Tomlin came out. Eventually, through the horrible AIDS crisis, we saw stars, Rock Hudson die, whether they'd come out prior or not. But no, there were no authority figures, people that you could look up to, to have any kind of guidance that way. Toby Jenkins: Social media non-existent. Sue Welch No. The Gay Yellow Pages, literally a book that you would look in to find places. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. Couldn't text people messages. Marcy Smith: Nope, nope. Sue Welch: No. Toby Jenkins: Couldn't send them pictures. Marcy Smith: No. Toby Jenkins: Okay. So we've talked about you meeting each other. Could you just real quickly emphasize to us and our viewers, what it was like when you had the discussion with your families to say, I'm a lesbian, I have a partner. Or can you kind of tell about those experiences, if you had those experiences with your parents. Marcy Smith: My family is kinda the 'don't ask, don't tell' family. Don't mess with my stuff. I'm not gonna mess with your stuff. We're not gonna have a lot of drama. So all this time, I was just kinda living my life, but wasn't really putting it in my parents' face, so to speak. Obviously, I wasn't bringing any guys home. And then Sue and I had been together for a little bit. But so what happened was, well, same-sex marriage didn't exist. So there was a company, a travel company called Olivia Travel Company. They were also a record company at the time that was promoting lesbian artists. And so it's an all-women's cruise, which is really neat. So Sue and I were gonna do that. And on these cruises, because you could not get legally married, they would haveSue Welch: Union ceremonies. Marcy Smith: Unions, yeah. Toby Jenkins: Commitment ceremony. 17 �March Smith: A commitment ceremony. So that's how my family found out, because we sent out announcements to my family that Sue and I were going to have a commitment ceremony in Mexico, and that's how my family found out. It was kind of ripply, quite frankly. And it was kinda like, I guess, how people can be like, how could you not know that Sue and I were a couple, but sometimes straight people don't really see things. So it was a little bit rough. We timed it pretty quickly before we went to the- so we could hurry up and get out of town and get on the cruise and let my family deal with it. So that's kinda how my family found out, which was literal announcement. Toby Jenkins: So you said it was rough. I mean, were they upset, or were they questioning you, or just mad that you hadn't told them before? Marcy Smith: Yeah, yeah. I think they- I don't know, 'cause I didn't really sit down and talk with them quite honestly. It was like, just y'all deal with it. Sue Welch: I think they were upset that they were having to deal with it. Marcy Smith: Yeah. Sue Welch: They were being forced to deal with it. Marcy Smith: Yes. Yeah, and this was something that they probably had pushed down for decades, obviously. It's like, "Oh my gosh, now they have to come to terms with it." I think my parents probably thought, in some form or fashion, that they had failed, and all those things that you hear. But ultimately, my mom embraced us and kinda became the mom down here at the center. So mom spent at least 10 years, I think, or more volunteering down at the center and baking brownies for people and things like that. So she committed to that once, I think, she came to terms with it. And so that was really neat. Sue Welch: She was great. Toby Jenkins: Sue, what about you, your family? I know you'd had the conversation with your mother. Sue Welch: Well, my family found out about our commitment ceremony in the same way, with the announcements. But all through Marcy had been my third relationship. And all through…they knew about my relationships, accepted my partners, and were very loving and accepting. Accepted them as family, they came to family reunions. So when we sent out the announcements, I got calls, "That sounds nice, honey. Well, good for you." 18 �Ohe worst one, or the most uncomfortable one, I guess, was from one of my sisters, and she just called and said, "Well, I just wanna call and tell you I got your announcement about your thing. And just wanna tell you I got it." That was about the most outside effect. But my family has just always been- I've been so fortunate, the way they've accepted me. Yeah. Toby Jenkins: Do you think your family's had issues with religion and sexuality? Were those any kinda struggles or politics? I mean, they were super conservative politically. Did they seem to show concern about how this was gonna make them look in their business or around, don't tell your grandmother. I mean, was there any kind of those? Marcy Smith: I think, from my father's perspective, that he was concerned about his reputation and his business reputation and the country club stuff and all of that. I remember in particular, he wanted a trip to Paris and through his company and he's like, "I don't wanna go to Paris. And I said, "Well, I'd like to go to Paris. I'll go on that trip." And it was an oil company trip thing and- so before it got too far down the line, he made it very clear to me that I was not to take my partner with me to on this trip. And so it was like, "You can take your mom." And so I said, "Okay, I'm gonna go to the city of love and take my mom." I mean, I love my mom, but. So anyway, so that was made very, very clear, that I was supposed to basically behave, in front of his peers and cronies and stuff like that for that trip, so. Toby Jenkins: Were you able to bring girlfriends home to your parents’ houses, your mom or dad's house for gatherings? Marcy Smith: So I mean, like Sue said, it's not like I was this dating feen. We had two- one, I had one, but I had a high school relationship but that was not, quite frankly, ever gonna go anywhere, but anyway. So two basic relationships before I got with Sue. Sue and I have been together for 34 years now, so it wasn't like there were this a bunch of women that I was bringing home. Toby Jenkins: Okay, what about you, Sue? Did the family feel any- I mean, were you able to take… Sue Welch: Oh yeah, yeah, from the get-go. My first relationship, second relationship, Marcy, they were all included in holidays, gatherings, accepted by my family and my sister that has lived in Oklahoma for- not currently, but for most of her life. Yeah, they were just part of the family and my partner. 19 �Marcy Smith: And I would agree with that. I don't want it to sound like my family was wanted me to not bring. ..I mean, they were- whoever I brought home, part of the family. My mom was one of seven children, so everybody was welcome. Toby Jenkins: No political pushback, no religious pushback? Marcy Smith No, because we are the 'don't ask, don't tell' family. So we didn't really bring that stuff up at all. Toby Jenkins: What about you, Sue? Sue Welch: No, no, my family's always been very progressive, very liberal, although we were raised in a fairly strict Lutheran Church, my family's never been that linear. Their Christianity really is what would Jesus do and love everyone. Toby Jenkins: Fortunate. Do you both feel fortunate that you were born into the families you were born into? Marcy Smith: Yes Sue Welch: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: 'Cause we're about to change gears just a little bit here, because surely, as you were hanging out at what places identified as the community, you were encountering people who did not have those experiences, could not take partners home, hadn't spoke to their families. I know that was something you probably were saying. So you're together…You're building your life together. I mean, did you move into an apartment together? Was there a U-Haul involved? We've always heard- I meanSue Welch: We moved into a duplex that I had previously moved into and we- then Marcy, moved in. Then we purchased the duplex and then we purchased a home in Midtown. Marcy Smith: Well, no, we purchased a second duplex. So we had two duplexes. Sue Welch: And then we purchased a home in Midtown, which we were renovating while we still lived in the first duplex. And when we moved to Midtown, it's kind of when we started finding more out about the gay pride parades and the center on Peoria and going to the center on Peoria, and seeing a little gift shop. And just- but for me, all the kids, the young kids that were there, and thinking, "Gosh, had I known about that sooner, I may have come out sooner, I don't know." but it was just- it was a pivotal thing to see that. Toby Jenkins: And of course, were you- at this time Marcy, you were still working for Tulsa County. Did they know? 20 �Marcy Smith I did not come out to- I mean literally say this to my peers, but I didn't hide my relationship with Sue and whenever we had- if we were doing chili cook-offs or whatever we were doing forToby Jenkins: Holiday parties. Marcy Smith: - fundraisers or things like that, it was just assumed that Sue would be there. So- but no, I didn't literally say to my boss, "This is who Sue is." Toby Jenkins: So you don't feel like you've experienced discrimination, justMarcy Smith: I don't know if I did or not, I just head down, get my career going and all that kinda stuff. So I don't know. Toby Jenkins: Just out of curiosity, would you have had a desk and would on your desk, would there have been a picture of your partner, and would you've had somebody ask you, like a new employee might say, "Are you married, do you have husband, do you have kids?" I meanMarcy Smith: I- to be honest, I cannot remember if I had a picture of SueSue Welch: You weren't out that much. Marcy Smith: No, no. No, I did not push that. No. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Okay. Sue, you had your medical profession. And what about with your clients? I mean, were youSue Welch: No, not out all. Toby Jenkins: You guarded that very carefully. Sue Welch: I may have had two clients that I was out to, but that's it. Toby Jenkins: Okay. So you've moved to Brookside, the Rainbow Ribbon, as it's called. And the center, as you call it, was just down the street. And what did that center look like? Sue Welch: It was small. It was small. It wasn't well appointed. I mean it was fantastic 'cause it served a great purpose, but just in comparison to where we're sitting now, it was small and not greatly appointed. It was hidden. Toby Jenkins: Wasn't accessible. 21 �Sue Welch: You had to go in a small door, climb some stairs. There wasn't signage, so that's kinda what I remember. The store was very, very small, maybe just one cabinet, some jewelry or something, as I recall. Toby Jenkins: And you would go to pride? Sue Welch: Yes, at that time, at least for a couple or few times, the pride parade went down Peoria, which was fantastic. So we started doing that and then we would go to pride every year beyond that. Toby Jenkins: Okay. When did- I mean, did you volunteer or did you just support it? Sue Welch: We mostly just supported at that time. And there were starting to be visible churches that were supportive, and there was one on Peoria also, and so we'd usually stand at that location. Toby Jenkins: That would've been All Souls ... ? Sue Welch: No, further south... . Toby Jenkins: Southwest Presbyterian, or? Sue Welch: Probably that Presbyterian one, yeah. Marcy Smith: It wasn't Southminster. It's not there anymore. It's right there where the green space is across from Charleston's. Sue Welch: Mm-hmm. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, the United Methodist Church. Marcy Smith: Yes, it was the United Methodist Church. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, I know. I forget the name of that, but. Okay, so you'd watch the parade. Sue Welch: And we'd join in at the end of the parade. At that time it was small enough, you could just walk with it. Toby Jenkins: Now did you ever attend the events like before the parade, where we had to walk down the sidewalks? Sue Welch: I don't know that we knew about those events. 22 �Toby Jenkins: Prior to that? Okay. And so the center was the headquarters of Tulsa Oklahoma for Human Rights, right? Correct? That y'all had already branded by that? Okay. Dennis Neill: Since '85. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. And, so you were there. I know that somewhere along the line, you got into the cause, got drafted, recruited, or fell into it accidentally. The desire for us to have a more permanent home because we weren't at- the center was not at that location very long, was it? Sue Welch: No. Toby Jenkins: And then it moved. Marcy Smith: And that happened at least three times within a fairly five to six year period of time. Because somehow or another, we got a lease signed but eventually the landlords weren't really happy about the clientele. Not that it was rowdy or outrageous or anything like that. So then we moved to, or TOHR moved to the space at 21st and Memorial by TNTs, the bar there. Toby Jenkins: Above TNT's. Marcy Smith: Above TNT's. And not a very, in my opinion, positive space because the smoke was seeping through the cinder block. It got to the point, I couldn't spend much time there because of how- it just was not a positive space. And that's kinda where the rumblings of the capital campaign happened. But yeah, we got recruited at a party by Nancy McDonald. We didn't know why we got invited to this party. Sue Welch: It was actually more surreptitious than that. We started having more friends, and so we got invited to this party. She was there but she told someone after that party, "You need to call those girls and get them involved." So we got a call and were asked to get on this group to help develop and work on a capital campaign for a permanent equality center. Toby Jenkins: Okay. Sue Welch: Found out later, Nancy was the impetus for that. Toby Jenkins: And so, you got asked to serve on that? Toby Jenkins: And what were those early days like? 23 �Sue Welch: So we did have, before moving from Peoria, we did have a couple, the very first meetings there. And Marcy and I are really organized and conducting meetings, let's get something done. So I think we exhibit our leadership pretty quickly. And a lot of people don't want to be in charge. So I became the capital chair at the time. And we developed a campaign, the United Way always has a name of their campaign, so we thought we need a name for this. And so we developed the Pyramid Project. And this was a beautiful little book telling everyone about it and how it would be such a wonderful thing to have our own center, where we wouldn't have to move, a permanent visible presence. And so we just went from there and from each place we would move, we would have more meetings. We did, thanks to Dennis and Nancy as I recall, we had training from the Gill Foundation that was a weekend long. And we brought in a lot of people to that and helped develop our focus a lot more about what amount we'd be raising, how we would do that. They had some really great booklets about fundraising. And again at the time, there were no foundations in Oklahoma, much less Tulsa, who would support us until later. So it was a very grassroots campaign. It was one person at a time, one gay person in Tulsa at a time getting them on board, having them donate funds. And then we got- I remember sending out a really sappy tear-jerky letter to a foundation in New York City, who I had heard reading through these manuals with Nancy, gave money to gay causes. And they gave us our first check from a foundation, a $10,000 check from a foundation. And after that, a friend called me from the George Kaiser Foundation and said, "George was looking at the newspaper on his desk about you all and the money you're raising, and he'd like to talk with you about this and see if he could get involved." And I was like, "Okay." Dominoes, so the dominoes started. The Schusterman Foundation. But we had- before any of this large money that way, we focused on house parties, individual people, really telling them how this could happen, would happen, and it would be amazing. We had our main donors. And Dennis helped with that group and really helped us get going. So it was a house party at a time. Marcy Smith: Then again, we're still in the midst of the AIDS crisis at this time. I mean, it's still kind of going on in the late 80s and early 90s as well. And when this kicked off, I will tell you, we got some pushback from the gay guys in the community that here are two women, two- that they didn't even know. Like, we're on the D list. They don't even know who we are. Stepping up to do this. And also, at the time, there had been at least one other nonprofit 24 �organization who had a capital campaign and the funds were misused. And so of course, the thought was like, "Well, this is gonna go the same way, even though it had nothing to do with it." It was really difficult to convince, I guess you'd call them the movers and shakers at the time, in the gay community. And then, of course, trying to pull the lesbian community into it was tough. But kind of being told to our face and also hearing what was being said behind our back gave us-Fuel…some fuel to kinda set this up. And we had to do it differently, like Sue said, because we weren't in L.A, we weren't in New York, we're literally- Ford Foundation would cut a check. We didn't have that here. And so, the way we had to do it here was totally opposite. Usually, you got these big donations at the beginning that kickstarted you. And here we had to prove ourselves first. Toby Jenkins: Public dollars. Oh, the public dollars in those places. Marcy Smith: And- yeah, there's not gonna be anything from the state. Nothing was going to happen like that here. But because of that, I think it really built this incredible foundation and support for the purpose of it. And again, it was about building this home, a permanent visible presence here. Toby Jenkins: Sue, talk a little bit about how y'all used social events to create buy-in and raise money at the same time. Sue Welch: I think there were disparate clubs around town and kind of cliquish groups around town. But we wanted to really bring everybody together. So we had- and in years past, there was a large party called the Black and White Party that was hosted by gay guys in Tulsa, which was a really nicely well-attended party. But it was just a party. So we wanted to bring this disparate group of people together behind the same cause. And there had not been a citywide gay party, LGBT party in decades. And so, we developed what we called the Wild Hearts Ball. And the first one we had was at the, then Brady Mansion. And there were so many people there. And this was the first big thing that had happened in Tulsa in a long time. And so we would show a big party, nice music, nice food. We'd show a video about this and ask for donations. And it was just so compelling for people to see so many people there joining in and know that we could all do this together. Toby Jenkins: And everybody could be invited to it. Marcy Smith: Exactly. Sue Welch: Oh yeah. Toby Jenkins: It wasn't an exclusive party. 25 �Sue Welch: Exactly, it was not exclusive. Toby Jenkins: It wasn't a girl party, a boy party. Sue Welch: No. Exactly. Yeah, it was the entire community. And that was really super because of our- we would send out a quarterly newsletter. Marcy Smith: This was postal mail about ... . Sue Welch: Postal mail. This is in sizeToby Jenkins: This one's an email. Sue Welch: This is in size 11 point font. See all these names? These are $10 donors to $10,000 donors. The entire community bought into this. It was a beautiful thing. Toby Jenkins: And it was all very smooth and unified, wasn't it? Seu Welch: Yes, yes. Everyone got along. Marcy Smith: Well, no. When we look at itSue Welch: Well, behind the scenes, we had to fight to get where we were, but everyone was just really pushing in the same direction. It was great that way. Marcy Smith: And again, it's tough to get- I'm sorry, lesbians onboard, 'cause they like to do their sports, they like to do the softball and all that kinda stuff and go to the bars. And so kinda pulling them out was a little difficult. So we did- so we- so it was like how many different ways can we slice this pie and serve it up to people to get people involved? So then we came up with the concept of the Women's Tea Dance. And also supporting women owned businesses and also provide nonprofit organizations the ability toSue Welch: Showcase. Marcy Smith: - Showcase their businesses to women. So imagine that, okay? So you got an all-women Women's Tea Dance, right? We are contacting, I don't know how many places we contacted and got no after no after no after no. No, we are not going to rent to you for a bunch of lesbians. I don't know what they thought it was gonna be. Some, I don't know, orgy or something like that. So we got turned down how many times and then we finally approached Frances. Sue Welch: So the last place I went to was the Greenwood Cultural Center. And I've been everywhere. Physically, meeting face-to-face with people. And so I met with Frances, told her who we were, what we were doing, that it was for ... campaign. 26 �Marcy Smith: She's director. Sue Welch: Frances Jordan, the Executive Director of the Greenwood Cultural Center. Marcy Smith: She, by the way, is still the Executive Director of the Greenwood today. Sue Welch: So I gave all my spiel and she said, "Well, Sue." And I expected a no. "Well, Sue, here at the Greenwood Cultural Center, we do not discriminate. So we'd be happy to have you." I was like, "Yay!" So at that first one and subsequent ones, we had 300- more than 300 lesbians from all across the city. And that was fantastic. Huge gatherings. Toby Jenkins: Now to pull in women, you also did the calendar girls. Marcy Smith: So yeah, there was a movie. I don't even know when the movie was, in the mid 90s or something. It was based on a true story. The calendar girls, which was an older group of women in Great Britain, who were trying to raise money for a wing to be added on to their very small hospital. So they came up with this idea to basically have a nudie calendar. Sue Welch: A boudoir calendar. Marcy Smith: A boudoir calendar. So we did the same thing, but what we did was- and I was really proud of these women that did this, 'cause we were partially Sue Welch: We were surprised by the women who said yes. Marcy Smith: Yeah, I mean, there were some pretty revealing photographs in this calendar. So what- so we didn't know if anybody was gonna- we didn't think anybody would buy the calendar. So we had them get sponsors. So they had to recruit as many people as possible to donate a minimum of like $250 or $500 or something like that to sponsor their month. That's how we raised. I mean, we were just happy to raise $5,000 at a time. $5,000 here, $5,000 there, to start building toward this million dollar, which was a monumental amount of money. When it was determined that that's what we were gonna need to do this, I mean, the community's likeSue Welch: Can't do it. Marcy Smith: "There's no way. You will never do that. Never do that." Sue Welch: The end point was $1.3 million. Toby Jenkins: And so there were naysayers, and there were people who were divisive, and there were people who may have been difficult. You had that, right? 27 �Sue Welch: Yeah, but not for long. Marcy Smith: And once the momentum started, itToby Jenkins: So I think I remember garden parties, the garden tour. Sue Welch: We did, we had a home and garden tour. Marcy Smith: Yeah, we did. Sue Welch: We really tried to model things that- the firemen did a calendar for United Way, so-and-so did a home and garden tour for whatever. So we try to model things that would make sense. That people would kind of already know how that worked and go, "Oh my gosh, so the gay community is doing that, great, let's get on to that." Toby Jenkins: What about the LGBT film festival? Was that alsoMarcy Smith: OUT OK. Sue Welch: So OUT OK, that was really progressive for the time. That was the first LGBT out film festival. Phillip Oh and Mark Bonney were in charge of that. They brought films from everywhere, amazing films, and all the proceeds went to the capital campaign. Marcy Smith: Yeah, talk about being ahead of its time. Sue Welch: Yeah. Marcy Smith: Now there's like gay film festival all the time. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. So it was a long lengthy process of raising the money, but you were also creating community and building a unified vision. Very impressed that you were able to do that. But at the same time, you still had to be take care in the community. So there was community centers, yet during this time. We still had community centers and you wanna talk about some of the locations andMarcy Smith: Well, I think where we were, we were at 21st and Memorial, and I think that was a very difficult landlord. It ended up being a very difficult landlord situation. But for me personally, I was glad we got the heck out of Dodge out of that location. I think it was an oppressive location, just because of the color of it and the smell of the smoke. I mean, it just was not- it didn't feel healthy. Toby Jenkins: And it wasn't accessible there. Sue Welch: No. 28 �Marcy Smith: It wasn't welcoming. Toby Jenkins: You had to steps to go up. Sue Welch: No. Yeah. Toby Jenkins: And then, got up there and the meeting room was downstairs, the bathrooms were downstairs, but we were- it was our center, and we were proud of it. Sue Welch: Yeah. Marcy Smith: Oh yeah. So the next location was the shopping center at 41st off of Yale, right across from Ricardo's Mexican restaurant, which is still there. And so that was, I would say, the best place we had been. And I'm gonna guess it was maybe 3,600 square feet, maybe. Sue Welch: Sounds about right. Yeah, maybe- 3,500. Marcy Smith: - 3,500, So it's give or take, right? And pretty much an open space, so not a lot of segregated space, where people could have private meetings or whatever they might've been doing and so but same kinda thing. We were there for a while, and then the landlord got a little weirded out and stuff. We were just trying to bide our time to get this going, so that we could own our own home instead of being kicked out eventually. And I say that- they just didn't wanna renew the lease. Or they just decided, given us notice and whatever, so. Toby Jenkins: What were some of the services that were being offered at the center? Sue Welch: Well, I'm glad you're bringing that up, Toby, because behind the scenes, while all this was going, certainly, Dennis and other people and the volunteers- Dennis was getting the Gill foundation to set up computer labs and all ofToby Jenkins: The Bohnett Foundation Sue Welch: Yes, the Bohnett. And all the services continuing, grief groups and game nights andToby Jenkins: HIV testing. Sue Welch: Yes, and counseling and all those things were still going on. Toby Jenkins: I can remember, just wanna throw this out there and get your thoughts on it. I can remember at that Center, at in the Highland Park Shopping Center, volunteering on a night where it was first time I'd ever been interacting. We had a transgender support group. 29 �So do you remember- we've talked about lesbian and gay men. Do you remember being an intentional outreach to transgender persons, or? Sue Welch: Not as far as with fundraising, because I don't think at that time we had a large group for the fundraising aspect. But certainly in the service, we established town halls finding out what people wanted, what we needed, so that we could provide that in this new place that was gonna be our permanent home. So absolutely in the services. Toby Jenkins: So you assess the community? Did y'all have surveys, or? Sue Welch: We did, at each Pride picnic, we had surveys. We had a large gathering at the library and we handed out surveys and collected information about what they want in the center, specifically as far as even rooms, art gallery, that sort of thing, kitchen, services they might want, locations they might want. Toby Jenkins: And so y'all were being paid to do all of this and you had a full-time position, right? Marcy Smith: No. Sue Welch: We had full-time positions at our jobs. Marcy Smith: : So every fundraising event for the Pyramid Project started off with a budgetSue Welch: Zero. Marcy Smith: - which was zero. That was what we started with. You're gonna donate this, you're gonna donate your time, you're gonna donate the goods, all that kinda thing. So our goal was that a lot of capital campaigns had budgets that as much as 25-30% would go to administrative overhead of what was being raised. Toby Jenkins: Paid to development workers. Marcy Smith: So our goal was to have 95% of the funds that we raised, go directly to the capital. So that meant 5% to do all this. And I think, ultimately, we ended up being aboutSue Welch: I think about seven. Marcy Smith: - 7-8% or something rather than 5%. So we were right around 92% of all the funds that were raised, stayed right there in the community foundation. That was the other thing. It was a big milestone, was going to Tulsa Community Foundation because it was about credibility. And so we needed to have our money at a place where it was managed for a place of credibility. So that was a huge milestone when we were able to have those 30 �funds placed at the Tulsa Community Foundation which they are still at today. So that was a big deal. That added some ... . Sue Welch: Yeah, through Dennis and Nancy, they introduced us to people there and got all that set up safe and safeguarded. So then, donors would feel even more comfortable. Toby Jenkins: So about how many years was the fundraising part of it? Marcy Smith: Six. Sue Welch: 6-7. Marcy Smith: Yeah, six, 2007 when we did it. Toby Jenkins: Did people grow fatigued from that? I mean, did theyMarcy Smith: Oh yeah. I mean, it didn't take too many years that when Sue and I would show up at a party, people were turning away. I mean, they knew we were gonna be pressing the flesh and, hi, how you doing? We haven't seen a donation from you in a while. But I mean, it just kinda got to be a joke. We were like, "Are we gonna get invited to anything this year?" Toby Jenkins: So I'm gonna take you back. This is your life. It's January 1st, 2000, the night after the Y2K fear. What were y'all doing on January 1st, 2000? Do you remember? Marcy Smith: Well, I can tell you what I was doing. I was head of the Y2K project at Tulsa County. So I spent that New Year's Eve in the computer room doing one of these. And it was a five-year project that I led. And I had the same budget from my boss which was, you're not gonna spend any money on this project. We weren't able to do that because of software costs, but it was a very small budget. So that's where I was. So I was in a computer room in Tulsa, Oklahoma that night. And it went perfectly, by the way. Sue Welch: Are you remembering a house party? Toby Jenkins: Yeah, on New Year's Day. Sue Welch: On New Year's Day. Marcy Smith: Oh, New Year's Day? Okay. Marcy Smith: New Year's Day, we had a house party at our house. Marcy Smith: Yeah, and invited several people. And I think we'd seen you peripherally, but this was your first time to really31 �Toby Jenkins: Be pulled into the project. Sue Welch: Yeah, yeah. To be ... . Toby Jenkins: My point isSue Welch: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: - I can remember getting invited to that on New Year's Day after we had all survived. And that was my first time to hear about it. The project to raise money for our permanent center. Now, I was very familiar with the center. Sue Welch: Sure. Toby Jenkins: But it was the first time I'd ever been included in that. And I had no money, but I was able to make just a little bitty tiny gift. But you made me feel like my little tiny gift was as important as the people who were writing the big checks. Sue Welch: It was. Toby Jenkins: So you spent five or six years raising this money and keeping the community focused on the prize. When did we buy the building? And do you wanna talk a little bit about the effort to finally purchase property? Sue Welch: So as we were getting, we set a goal that we would have a certain amount of money raised before we would even look at property. And we were reviewing a dozen or more properties over and over, as we got to that point. And Dennis called and said, "Hey, have you looked at this place at 4th and Kenosha?" And we're like, "Okay, we'll go look at that one." And so we called up the realtor who was listed there and I said, "Okay, great. I'm gonna have to talk to another realtor and tell him who we are and what we're looking for." And so went to his office and on his wall was a big picture of John F. Kennedy. I was like, "I think I'm okay." And so I met Max Tankersley and told him about who we were and he said, "Okay, great. I'd love to show you this". So we walked in and at the time, it had been a communications company, so there were wires literally everywhere. It was just full of communications things. But it was so solid because it used to be an oil company's building, where they built explosives to dig oil wells before they had the bits. So the walls are about 12 inches thick. It is just so solid. So walking through, it's really solid, it's not dirty, it's not dank, it's bright…Lots of windows, lots of space. We're thinking, "Oh my gosh, there's so much space here. But from these surveys, we could do this, we could do that, we could do all the 32 �things that the people are wanting." And so I think we probably called Dennis first and said, "Dennis, this is a really neat place." And we had a key group of donors who just kept donating, were donating substantially. And so, we rented two trolley cars. We had a nice little reception at a house in Terwilliger Heights. And we said, "We're gonna take you all to a place we want you to see that we believe this is gonna be our center." And so we got 'em all fed and liquored up and got 'em on the trolleys. And so we came in and several of them were like- because it wasn't rough compared to the things we've been looking at, but it wasn't fancy by any means. Marcy Smith: And grey. Sue Welch: And it was downtown, which was one of the locations people wanted, but not everyone. And so I think several of them went, "Oh, wow, this is really great, great vision." And some of 'em went, "Ugh, this is what you're picking? It was a little effort in getting people on board with that. So we created- we got together a group of designers and if you want to haveToby Jenkins: Gay designers. Sue Welch: Gay designers. And if you want to have fun, get a group of gay designers together and tell them, we're not paying them anything and everything they develop needs to come in free, all the accessories, all the furniture. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, but they have to raise the money to furnish the room. Sue Welch: And so that was fun. Kirk Holt, I appointed him as the chair, 'cause he's great at getting all those people together. So we developed these vision boards for each of the rooms and we had more people come and more people look, and that really helped with donations. This was, of course, after we bought the building, and that helped also engage people for volunteerism, if they couldn't give or if they wanted to do more, to physically work at the building in renovations. I served as the general contractor for the renovations and we had a ... . Marcy Smith: And she got paid zero. Sue Welch: And we had literally hundreds of volunteers working thousands of hours. The things we had to hire, have electricians, licensed plumbers, that sort of thing. We certainly did that. But I mean, so many people learned how to sheet rock, insulate things, tear down walls. Some of my happiest memories are remembering these guys and looking at you Dennis, doing that work, that heavy, hard work. 33 �Marcy Smith: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: So the building was purchased, let's talk about that morning after years of fundraising and this was the- you're trying to keep everybody rowing in the right direction. Tell us about that morning, when you invited the community to come and look at it and we raised the first rainbow flag. Sue Welch: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: From our flagpole and we had ... Marcy Smith: Talking about the Field of Dreams? Sue Welch: Nope. Marcy Smith: Oh, okay. Toby Jenkins: No, I'm talking about the morning we ... Marcy Smith: Oh, the grand opening. Toby Jenkins: Well, it wasn’t the grand opening, it was the morning that we ... Sue Welch: That was our first flag. Toby Jenkins: The building was ours, and we raised the flag for the first time. Marcy Smith: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: You had a bagpiper on the roof. Sue Welch: Yeah, yep, had a bagpiper on the roof, we had Rick Hollingsworth give us a blessing. Toby Jenkins: Probably, a thousand people showed up. Sue Welch: The first time so many people had even been in the building. And I remember it was so loud downstairs in the main hall. I was looking around, I'm not a loud speaker and I thought, "I've gotta find somebody, I've gotta get up on these stairs, I gotta find somebody to get the attention of this crowd. And I saw Rebecca Ungerman out there and I said, "Rebecca." And so I got Rebecca up on the stairs and everyone was milling about, crammed in there and just excited. And so she got the crowd's attention and we just had a little, here's your new home people, let's complete this project. Toby Jenkins: Yep, first time34 �Sue Welch: Yep. Toby Jenkins: - this was ours, it belonged to us. Sue Welch: Yeah, people were so excited. Toby Jenkins: Wasn't leased, wasn't rented, no landlord could take our mortgage away. Sue Welch: Exactly. Toby Jenkins: And we were able to raise our rainbow flag. Sue Welch: Yep, show who we were, know that we'd have signage on the building that it couldn't be taken away because that was a problem with so many of the places, moving so often caused breaks in services, not being able to identify our building, our storefront, where we were leasing, caused difficulty in people's access. And so now, we had a place we could put signage, have our flag, we had a corner in downtown Tulsa, in the heart of Oklahoma. Marcy Smith: And as most neighborhoods go after the gays move in, this area of Tulsa and downtown has exploded with development, exploded. Toby Jenkins: And here you have it, we can verify documentation that the gay folks revitalized downtown Tulsa you now at this point. Marcy Smith: Absolutely. Marcy Smith: This Pearl District, you have- absolutely right. Sue Welch: Absolutely. Toby Jenkins: 'Cause it was the truth. Sue Welch: Absolutely. Toby Jenkins: Because it was just, mostly downtown was abandoned buildings that were boarded up. Sue Welch: Yep. Toby Jenkins: Nobody lived down here. There weren't any stores or you didn't have people walking their pets, so. Sue Welch: Yeah. 35 �Toby Jenkins: But it's what we could afford and we got it. Tell us about that year we spent working on it, but at the same time, we were operating the centerSue Welch: Sure. Toby Jenkins: - with all of its servicesSue Welch: Sure. Toby Jenkins: - at its old location. Sue Welch: Marcy had a good job that allowed me to spend a lot of time during that time away from my practice. And so every Saturday and Sunday, we would have volunteers. One of my cohorts would help check 'em in and we give assignments. Some people would just be sweeping, some people would be putting up walls. Toby Jenkins: Or ladders. On ladders. Sue Welch: Yeah. Oh, on ladders, painting, cleaning, taking up tile from the floor. You name it. Tiling new bathroom floors, from A to Z. So volunteers full out Saturdays, Sundays, weekend after weekend after weekend to get this accomplished on a shoestring, but properly and still involving people. That was as much part of it as anything. It's one thing to pay for everything to get done and come on in. We created this beautiful jewel box for you. But it's another thing to have people go, I created this. I helped open these doors. I painted this door. That was huge. Toby Jenkins: So tell us about the grand opening, and the Field of Dreams, dinners, andSue Welch: So the Field of Dreams, we did have requirements because we were changing the use from what it was previously to a public space. So we had to create more accessible ramps, elevators, doorways, things like that, and all that added up to quite some expense. So our first official event here was called the Field of Dreams. If we build it, they will come. And so we had volunteers in softball uniforms, and we had teams thatToby Jenkins: Cute gay boys. Marcy Smith: Yeah. Marcy Smith: We had team captains. Sue Welch: Not girls in softball uniforms. Marcy Smith: We had team captains, so it was baseball teams and it was a competition. 36 �Sue Welch: So they were bidding against each other. There was nothing they were gonna win. There were no prizes. There were no auction items. This was full-out cash. They were playing against each other, and we raised all the money, over $130,000 cash, that night without any auction items to do all of the ADA requirements. Marcy Smith: And it was adopting rooms. So these were concept drawings of what the various spaces were gonna be. So if you were a kitchen person, or you were interested in the library, or the art gallery, the theater. That was really great to have those concept drawings, so that people could visualize what this incredible space was gonna look like, based on the town halls, and what they said they wanted in the space. So we were able to give 'em pretty much everything they asked for. The other thing I remember, too, is the size of the building, okay? So we were at 3,500 square feet. This facility is 18,000 square feet. We got so much pushback from, are you kidding me? You're never gonna be able to fill that space. Sue Welch: We don't need that. Marcy Smith: .. We don't need that space. And here we are, nearly 20 years later, and in my opinion, we could add on a few places, but. Toby Jenkins: So any details about the grand opening? I'm trying to remember. Sue Welch: I remember, we did balloons, 'cause at that timeMarcy Smith: We did an non-environmental thing. Sue Welch: - we were not that environmentally conscious. I'm sorry, I apologize. Marcy Smith: We released balloons. Sue Welch: But we did have a bagpiper on the roof, which was really cool. Everyone was just so thrilled, and walking through the place. It was just giddy, giddying us, it was wonderful. Marcy Smith: Smudging, blessing the building. People laying hands on the building. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. Marcy Smith: Good energy. Sue Welch: It was. Toby Jenkins: ... American blessings. 37 �Marcy Smith: Yes, yes. Sue Welch: It was good energy. Toby Jenkins: And then we moved in. Sue Welch: Yes. Toby Jenkins: And the programs began. Sue Welch: And the programs began. And yes, if you build it, they will come. It's absolutely true. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. Sue Welch: Given the proper leadership, and we had such great leadership then, and people pushing for great programs. Toby Jenkins: And so prior to this, we would have these huge meetings or events. We would have to rent space, or we would have to cram into whatever place we had. I can remember many, many things that we would use in those other spaces. Or when the sodomy laws were struck down, we didn't have a big enough space, so we had to use a restaurant on Cherry Street. But then this building finally had enough space that if we could mobilize and fight for our communitySue Welch: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: - Celebrate, remember those. I mean, it became a place where people did their funerals, their commitment ceremonies, and where we met for meetings to fight for our rights. Sue Welch: Yeah. Yeah, we could celebrate and mobilize and honor each other in our own home. Toby Jenkins: Do you remember some of the major events that this building was here to witness and testify to? Marcy Smith: Well, legalized same-sex marriage for number one. But also it becoming a hub for pride. So that we could centralize pride activities, which was really pretty cool to be able to do that. Otherwise, we were renting, leasing space to try to do pride events. We're not without negative things happening, and one of the things that wasn't publicized at the time that we did it but we did it for safety was, we put bulletproof glass in this building because we felt that at some point, unfortunately, that may be needed. And so we had a 38 �drive-by shooting in this building and thankfully, the bulletproof glass did its job. So never more thankful to have that particular decision to save people ... – [Bullet-resistant glass was not initially installed. It was added in 2017 after a drive-by shooting from a pellet gun made 13 holes in the front windows and front door. Wes Smith, an OkEq member, challenged the community to send in $13 each to replace the glass. The challenge went viral, people across the country and world sent in money. In total, more than $33,000 was committed which allowed OkEq to replace all downstairs windows and the front door with bullet-resistant glass.] Toby Jenkins: So do you remember when the sodomy laws were struck down, we celebrated at a restaurant, but the next major event was when gays were allowed to be in the military ... . And do you remember the events around that? Sue Welch: So yes, we were able to celebrate that in a fantastic way and we actually created the veterans lobby here, top second floor, off the elevator. And then another pivotal time ... Toby Jenkins: And we ... - just a minute. We invited military recruiters to come to this ... . Sue Welch: That's right, that's right. Toby Jenkins: And they came all the way from where, the Pentagon. Sue Welch: Fantastic, yes. That's right ... . Toby Jenkins: And we became the very first place in the United States where gay people served, signed up to join the military. We were the face of that on the front page of 1900 newspapers the next day in the heartland, in the middle of the country. Sue Welch We were also because of Mary and Sharon and Gay and Sue and were able to celebrate the pivotal gay marriage right here, in the center, with those ladies here in Tulsa. So yeah, so many pivotal things here. Toby Jenkins: Remember when the White House came to visit, when we got behind the Affordable Care Act cause we knew we needed to sign people up so that Obamacare, and they sent a representative here 'cause we had signed up 147 people in one day. Sue Welch: It's fantastic. It's fantastic, yeah. Toby Jenkins: So Sue, you called it the field of dreams. Why did you call it the field of dreams? Sue Welch: Because if we build it, they will come. 39 �Toby Jenkins: And did they come? Sue Welch: They did, and actually even more, in more numbers than I dreamed. I mean the programming and Toby, I know you're greatly responsible for a lot of that programming that started happening. And the people upon people, upon people who came and had fun or had a service or were recognized and seen or just got to be able to be with their family, their LGBTQ+ family, just people fill this place the whole entire time, all the time. I know I would get update calls from you saying how many people had come and what pivotal help had been given to certain people that day. Just incredible. Marcy Smith: Well, saving lives. Sue Welch: Absolutely, saving lives. Marcy Smith: People who were at the end of their rope. I mean, just needing a place to come where they can literally walk in the door. Sue Welch: ... you're safe. Marcy Smith: Yes, this is a safe place. Sue Welch: A safe affirming place. Toby Jenkins: So you spent a lot of work for the community to make this happen, and on behalf of the community, the LGBTQ+ community, I wanna say thank you so much for that. Any regrets about it? Sue Welch: None. Marcy Smith: None. Sue Welch: None. And I have to say there were so many hundreds of people behind us who really made it happen, who made it a success. We were just able to drive some of it. Toby Jenkins: So this is a- in 2026 and you ladies are moving into your middle age years. Marcy Smith: Thank you for that. Toby Jenkins: Yeah. Toby Jenkins: There were some difficult times, 'cause just because we had the building doesn't mean- I mean, we've had some vandalism, we've had physical threats, we've had some deaths, some heartaches, and we've had some other challenges too. You just didn't 40 �hang up your hats and say, we're done helping the community or being involved. What have you had to do in the last few years? Sue Welch: So things were rocking along really great for a while. We got some breathing time and just having fun with friends and things. But there were some individuals, boards, leaderships, that didn't go through what all of us went through. They didn't go through the turmoil and the trial and the difficulties that all of us went through. They're a younger generation, they grew up being able to be married, they grew up with less offense to them, they grew up being able to put their partner's picture on their office desk. Just so different from us. When some younger leadership, I think I'll just categorize it that way, came in, I don't think it was- they had less ownership. So, COVID came and that changed everything for everybody. But generationally, I think we're significantly different in that. We like to gather physically together and COVID made that really difficult. So coming out of that, changes started happening. We noticed we weren't getting notices about things happening at the center, even post-COVID. It seemed there was less going on. People weren't gathering at the center. We didn't reactivate those activities and events and things for people to physically gather. As the world did, we all became a little more siloed. So I think we lost a lot of interest, funding, relativity during that time. In February of 2024, we got a notice saying that the organization needed to raise $100,000 to keep the doors open. We were in shock. And so we met up with some people and said, "What's going on here? What's happening?" And so Marcy and I, thanks to some people, we were asked to be on the gala committee that year. We were generously given the leeway to co-chair the gala. And fortunately, we kinda did our thing. We've done a lot of galas. Well, by the gala committee, we were generously offered to co-chair the gala. We had leadership difficulty. I was coming in, again, as old lesbians going, "What do you know?" I mean, that was an old time. You can't do anything for us. And we had a hard time not going ... listen to whippersnappers. This is how it was. So ultimately, that gala was the highest grossing and highest net gala in OkEq’s history. And we were able to really build up our coffers again, and keep us open and keep the center going and alive. Marcy Smith: In 90 days. Sue Welch: Yeah, in a very short time. Marcy Smith: There was no one chairing this. It was not gonna happen. 41 �Sue Welch: Yeah, there was not gonna be a gala. We even had foundations tell us, "You should not be having a gala right now." And we said, "For two reasons. We have to have a gala. We must have a gala. One, of course, for the fundraising. And, we know we can do this. Two, for the community. Because our community has scattered to the winds. And we need to bring them back together." Toby Jenkins: So we talked about the pandemic, and we talked about the financial challenges the organizations have, and we've talked about generational differences, andbut we also have political issues that are impacting our community. It's 2026, so as your sign-off message, I've asked you to think about this. Do you have a challenge, or a message, or a final words that you'd like to give to people who might see this, and either feel the motivation to get involved, or maybe even have an explanation of how important it is? Do you have any final words for our viewers? Sue Welch: You go first. Marcy Smith: I would say that don't discount having a place, a physical place. I have an IT background and we're in a virtual world at this point, but there is so much in life, especially in a human experience, virtual stuff cannot give you and provide you that connection that you have to have by just being in the same space with people who support you, and that you can provide fine services. The whole point of this Center was for it to be a resource center for people. We didn't think that we were gonna be all things to all people, but we wanted to have a hub, a place where the organization could also work with other organizations to provide services to people, and to have a gathering place for us, and we're seeing this. We are seeing this in the world now. We are seeing psychological studies coming out about how this isolationism, and being at home, and this whole virtual reality, if you will, it's not. It's not real. What is real is being with people, engaging with people, celebrating with people, having really hard times with people. It's a human experience. It cannot be replaced with technology. That's my background, and I know that. And so it's about having a home and a place to come back to. And supporting an organization that's going to help our community be a better place. Not just the LGBTQ+ community, but other members in this community we call home, we call Tulsa, reaching out to other organizations to help in that effort, because it's a tough time, and funding is getting ripped out from non-profits. They are literally facing their demise. National public Radio… all of these things that we held to be, assumed that it was always gonna be here, always thought we would have public funding for the arts, really. 42 �Always thought we would have freedom of speech, thought we would have freedom of the press. The press is what is gonna hold our elected officials accountable, in addition to us. So we are at a really, really tough time, and it has been set on fire because of technology. Because we are not gathering together. Because we're holed up in our respective places, and we've got to come together again. We've got to support each other again in a physical way, in addition to a technological way. And having a home that is a place where we can gather, where we can rally, where we can figure out strategies to do this, is really important because if the decision is ever made to lose this space, then we become invisible again. They, whoever they are succeeded. They don't have a place to call home anymore. They don't have a place to gather anymore. They don't have a place to rally. They don't have a place to celebrate our artists. They don't have a place for our performers to come. They don't have a place to have counseling. Transgendered individuals don't have a place to have health care. We don't have a- we're burning books, and we're banning books. We don't have a library anymore to celebrate that aspect. All of these things are here for anyone who wants to come in and celebrate LGBTQIA+ individuals as a community, but as a community, as an accepting and affirming community that we call home. And that's Tulsa. It's so much more than a physical building, and that's where I would say, generationally moving forward, I hope that you all can understand how important the space is to maintain. Can we change the space? Absolutely. Can we change up the different things that are here? Absolutely. That's what a home's all about. It evolves and it changes as we need it to change. But I am hopeful and lay this on the table for folks coming behind us, please keep it. Please figure out how to keep it. Make it your own, make it evolve and change as our needs change. But allowing it to go away, I think, will be a grave mistake for our community. And I'm not saying that it is. I'm not saying that it is. But I think there are individuals out there that feel that we don't need a space to call our own, where we can celebrate each other, a physical space. And home is a really big word, encompasses a lot of things. Sue Welch: I really couldn't say any better than that, but just to say that, when you lose something that so many people have identified with, you lose your identity. When you don't communicate to every group, not just the current generation, but every group, about what's here for them. When you don't have physical group meetings, people physically gathering in large groups, that sounds scary to some people now, just because of COVID, but we have to have face-to-face large groups to support each other. 43 �The harder it gets politically, financially, the more we need to physically gather and we have our home to do it in. So let's not lose that, let's not take it for granted, let's use it. Toby Jenkins: This is perfect. So while you're the CP's ambassadors, called them the Iron Lady, Madam Prime Minister, was my nicknames for them. What are you presently doing? I mean what do you- your careers and the work that you do now? Sue Welch: Well, we are entrepreneurial. We own a business together called OsteoStrong, which is a wellness center that focuses on increasing your bone density, your muscular strength and your ligament and tendon strength. That's healthy for everybody. We have over 300 members. We're loving it and we do have some of our community members who are also OsteoStrong members and we do love that. We garden, we travel, we've loved that forever. I serve as a trustee again on the Board of Trustees for Oklahomans For Equality. Toby Jenkins: In your medical practice there, you're focusing a lot on issues with the emerging, growing older adult population, so that you're still serving a community, every aspect of it. Sue Welch: Sure, sure. Toby Jenkins: Anything else for us and our founder. Do you have any other things or archivist any things, before we bring our interview to a close? Sue Welch: I just wanna say thank you to all of you for all the work you're doing and have done, because we could not have done anything, any of this without you. Amanda Thompson: Yeah, no, it's great. And thank you guys for sharing this. And as the one youngster in the room, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you're saying and the stuff you talk about is really important. I'm personally very lucky and very happy to be a part of furthering those connections and helping people just get the word out, how important these things are. Sue Welch: Thank you, Amanda. Marcy Smith: We have to pay it forward. Amanda Thompson: Yeah. Marcy Smith: We do. Toby Jenkins: Yeah, thank you so much. You have been listening toMarcy Smith: Marcy Smith. 44 �Sue Welch: Sue Welch. Toby Jenkins: - here at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center on January the 16th, 2026. Addendum: Sue Welch requested the following be added to the transcript. "My Dad, Lloyd Welch was a 3rd generation brick mason and builder. He helped with the initial renovation when we bought the building for the Dennis R Neill Equality Center. He taught volunteers and various friends many skills that we needed during that time to get the building ready. He taught and worked with Stan Smalts, Dale Tune and Marty Steinmetz, replacing and hanging exterior doors; David Hoot patching interior plaster walls; Norm Kopp tuck pointing worn brick exterior wall joints of the building, as well as many other tasks with other volunteers. He had a great time with the guys and they with him. They all really appreciated learning from him. Some of them even took the skills they learned from our volunteer efforts into their own lives later as well. My Mom, Joan Welch provided moral encouragement and cheerleading support during that time filled with physical work. We would all break for lunch in the garage, now the Lynn Riggs Theatre. Nancy McDonald, everyone's Mom, brought cookies for snacks every weekend for the volunteer crew. It was a fantastic time of camaraderie, hard work and joy!" 45 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Series] Oral Histories Project > Interviews Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br />Box 7, Folder 7 - Dr. Leisa Meyer Program<br />Box 7, Folder 8 - Interviewees Materials, Original Series 2003-2007<br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Sue Welch and Marcy Smith Interview Description An account of the resource Sue Welch and Marcy Smith share their personal journeys, highlighting their experiences growing up in Oklahoma and navigating their identities as members of the LGBTQ+ community. Marcy recounts her childhood in Tulsa, her education at Oklahoma Christian College, and her early awareness of her sexual orientation. She reflects on the challenges faced by LGBTQ+ individuals in a conservative environment, including the need for stealth and the importance of finding community. Sue shares her upbringing in Ponca City and her academic journey at OSU. Both women discuss their relationships, the evolution of their identities, and the significance of community support in their lives.<br /><br />Marcy and Sue recount their involvement with Oklahomans for Equality and the development of the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center. They reflect on the challenges of coming out to their families, the societal pressures they faced, and the importance of creating a safe space for LGBTQ+ individuals in Tulsa. Their stories are filled with humor, resilience, and a sense of belonging, showcasing the power of love and community in overcoming adversity. In this episode, Marcy Smith and Sue Welch share their inspiring journey of establishing a community center for the LGBTQ+ community in Tulsa, Oklahoma. They successfully organized fundraising events, such as house parties and the Wild Hearts Ball, to raise awareness and funds. Their determination led to significant milestones, including securing a $10,000 grant from a New York foundation and eventually purchasing a permanent space for their community center, which became a hub for support, celebration, and activism.<br /><br />The conversation highlights the importance of physical spaces for community gathering, especially in a time when virtual connections are prevalent. Marcy and Sue emphasize the need for ongoing support and engagement within the community, particularly in light of recent political challenges. They reflect on the center's role in pivotal moments for LGBTQ+ rights, including the legalization of same-sex marriage and the repeal of discriminatory laws. Their message is clear: maintaining a physical home for the community is essential for fostering connection, support, and resilience against adversity. Subject The topic of the resource Sue Welch and Marcy Smith Oral History Interview from January 16, 2026 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sue Welch, Marcy Smith, Toby Jenkins, Dennis Neill Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource January 16, 2026 2026 AIDS AIDS/HIV Dennis Neill Dennis R. Neill Dennis R. Neill Equality Center Equality Center Equality Center Opening Gay marriage HIV HIV/AIDs interview LGBT marriage Marcy Smith OHR OkEq Equality Center OKEQ Oral History Project Oklahoma Christian College Oklahoma State University Oklahoma State University (OSU) Oklahomans for Human Rights Oklahomans for Human Rights - Tulsa Chapter oral history oral history interview Oral History Project oral history transcript OSU Pyramid Project same sex marriage Sue Welch Toby Jenkins TOHR transcript Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights (TOHR) video Wild Hearts Ball https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/b95930bb43b6204cc0b535ce32caa168.mp4 469e654a90e50910f02a606edc370ad8 https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/de83922a814abfccb89b44324379c8b2.pdf 24694ed11bcd4bf4f24f336d45fea72a PDF Text Text Oklahomans for Equality Oral History Interview with Tom Neal Interview Conducted by Dennis Neill Date: April 30, 2026 Transcribed and Edited By: Dennis Neill using Reduct.Video AI, May 23, 2026 Restrictions: Interviewee requested: N/A Oklahomans for Equality History Project 621 E. 4th Street Tulsa, OK. 74120 918.743.4297 historyproject@okeq.org 1 �About Tom Neal Summary In this in-depth interview, Tom Neal shares his life journey, from growing up in Oklahoma to becoming a community activist and publisher. He discusses his experiences with LGBTQ+ advocacy, the evolution of Tulsa's community spaces, and his reflections on social progress and challenges. Keywords LGBTQ+ history, Tulsa community, activism, journalism, HIV/AIDS, LGBTQ+ rights, community building, personal story Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction 00:29 Tom Neal's Early Life and Family Background 01:15 Education and Early Influences 02:11 School Experiences and French Class Antics 03:11 College Years and Architectural Studies 04:21 Moving Back to Tulsa and Community Involvement 07:16 Growing Up LGBTQ+ in Tulsa 08:38 Realization of Sexual Identity and Puberty 09:46 Early Role Models and Family Support 11:20 First Awareness of Being Different 12:28 Family Reactions and Relationships 13:54 Exploring Sexuality and Personal Growth 15:16 Involvement in LGBTQ+ Organizations and Activism 16:42 Community Engagement in Dallas and Tulsa 18:40 Founding Tulsa Family News 2 �20:05 Courage to Be Open and Advocate 22:12 Memories of Bruce Goff and Architectural Roots 24:08 First Encounters with HIV/AIDS in Los Angeles 27:24 Activism and Civil Rights Work 35:19 Journalism and Publishing Journey 42:54 Proudest Achievements and Challenges 44:17 Memorable Moments and Mistakes in Publishing 45:24 Reflections on Community and Progress 50:22 Involvement with Oklahoma LGBTQ+ Organizations 58:51 Early Days of the LGBTQ+ Center in Tulsa 01:06:49 Community Challenges and Progress 01:11:49 The Impact of Media and Community Scattering 01:16:46 Reflections on Activism and Community Building 01:23:18 Future Plans and Personal Reflections Tom Neal Oral History Interview April 30, 2026 Dennis Neill: Good morning. It is April the 30th, 2026. I am Dennis Neill, and I am in the Nancy and Joe McDonald Rainbow Library at the Oklahoma Equality Center, and I'm here with Tom Neal. We have the pleasure of interviewing him, and with me is Mary Bishop-Baldwin, an archivist that is working with us here at the Center. So Tom, would you introduce yourself by mentioning your name and your age and where you grew up? Tom Neal: I'm Tom Neal. I'm 68. I was born in Oklahoma City, but we moved here when I was three, so I pretty much consider myself being from Tulsa. Dennis Neill: And tell me a little bit about your early life, your family life, your education as an adolescent. Tom Neal: Sure, so my father is a retired anesthesiologist, and he moved here to start the anesthesia department at St. Francis, and of course at that time, St. Francis was the edge of the city, and our little housing development, Holiday Hills, was about the only only place to live that was near the hospital. I think that was even before the LaFortunes donated their farm to become LaFortune Park. I don't remember this, but that's what I remember my mom saying. I have four brothers, two older, two younger. I'm biologically related to my three younger, two younger brothers, excuse me, and my two older brothers were adopted by my family, though they're biologically related to each other. Went through TPS, Carnegie, which I'm proud to say is still considered one of the best schools in the city, elementary schools, Nimitz, and then Memorial, and most people usually get thrown out of private schools and wind up going to a public school. I managed to get thrown out of a public school and wound up finishing up at Holland Hall my last couple of years, so I'm not sure it's a distinction to be proud of, but it's part of my history. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: What did you do to get kicked out? 3 �Tom Neal: I think I smarted off to one of the disciplinarians who was a coach, and they had sent me home for something, and I was feeling oppositional, so instead of going home, which most kids probably want to go home, I went to my French class, and he came and threatened to drag me bodily out of the French class, and so I spoke to him only in French at that point, which of course, and he later told my parents that I had cussed him out in French. I don't know, I didn't know when he cussed words in French, so that wasn't actually true, but anyway….wound up being one of the best things for me academically. I spent a couple semesters, well, I spent one semester at the American College in Paris. I was a little too young as a freshman to be that far away from home. There's a reason you do it in junior year, but I came back and went to the University of Tulsa for a couple semesters, and then I transferred to Rice in Houston and finished up there, class of 1980, with a degree in art and architectural history. Not very employable, but very interesting, and also a degree that involved a lot of writing, which may be relevant to other things. I also wound up having pretty intensive writing instruction when I was at Holland Hall, so that was a benefit there, too, as well as a couple of really good French teachers at Holland Hall. Then I moved from Houston to Dallas, started going to architecture school at the University of Texas at Arlington, and then left to go to an architecture program in Los Angeles, lived there for about four years, and then decided that the day that they had, well, this is just circumstantial, but the day that they had both an earthquake and a tornado in Los Angeles is the day that I moved back to Tulsa. So, and then worked here in Tulsa for a couple years, particularly for two architects, Kathleen Page and Rachel Williams-Zabrowski. Wonderful, wonderful people, who, after I worked with them maybe two years, Kathleen took me aside and said, we're firing you, not because we don't like your work, but because you need to go back to school and finish your architecture degree, because I had begun it, but not finished it. And I said, well, gee, thanks, maybe, but, so I wound up shopping my credits to Oklahoma State and then to OU, and Oklahoma State, they're like, well, you didn't do it here, you need to start from the beginning, and OU said, we're going to give you credit for almost everything, so I'm a Sooner, that was a no-brainer. So Rice, 1980, University of Oklahoma, 1989. Lived in Dallas again and then came back to Tulsa after my mother had an aneurysm, which she survived, thanks be to God, and have been in Tulsa. And that was probably, well, you [Dennis] and I knew each other before. I had met you when TOHR was almost new, and you and Doug [Hartson] and all that crew were doing stuff at the Aaronson Auditorium. But I think that might have been when I was working for Kathleen. And then I came back in 93 and got involved in, went to Pride, at that point still kind of in the wilds of Mohawk Park, and kind of got involved in the community. Kelly was leading things, Kelly Kirby was leading things then, and kind of went from there. Before I had a little, I'd been involved in a retail, a lesbian owned retail store in Dallas on Cedar Springs, in the heart of a kind of gay village. And so I tried to recreate that in Tulsa, even though it's a very different dynamic. Dallas had that concentrated 4 �little bit of community, whereas now and then, Tulsa's community is kind of scattered. And I had a store at the Silver Star Retail Store for about a year. Dennis Neill: Do you remember what year that would have been? Tom Neal: That would have been about probably 94-ish, 1994-ish. Dennis Neill: And was that Tomfoolery? Tom Neal: Yes, it was called Tomfoolery. Yeah, and it was a, kind of like Tulsa Family News, it was a, compared to some LGBT retail establishments, it was a pretty vanilla, clean, I didn't have things that you wouldn't, that you'd be ashamed to show your mother, for example. So, same with the paper, did not, tried to be a legitimate news outlet within my skill set. Anyway, so how am I doing? Dennis Neill: Great, so let's talk a little bit more about your early years, growing up in school, kind of your peers and your activities both within the school and any out of school activities that were of particular interest to you during that growing up phase. Tom Neal: Golly, well, I was like a lot of gay kids, I was probably pretty obviously gay, from elementary school, and I do remember getting harassed, at that time, it was just bullying, it was kind of the ethos of the time. A little bit at Carnegie, more so at Nimitz, junior high seems to bring out the worst, particularly in boys, but there's some mean girls too, you know. And actually, I remember also getting harassed at Memorial, there was one young man who used to, I didn't, I don't think I even knew his name, I don't think I'd ever met him, but whenever we would encounter each other in the hallways, he would scream faggot at me, which was, well, that's lovely. And I'm like, you know. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: How did you react to that? Tom Neal: Well, it made me angry, but there wasn't, I mean, there were no, there were no very few, to my knowledge, no support resources. I, like a lot of gay men of that era, tried to, was kind of in denial. I think, I do remember at age 16, I decided, being gay is not very easy and I'm not going to be gay, because I'm just a pig-headed gay and I figured I could just kind of will myself not to be gay. And that lasted until 24. And I was in a relationship with a young lady and she broke up with me and I thought, probably this is the time I need to just acknowledge, but we lived together and, to some degree had a fairly successful relationship. Dennis Neill: Any children? Tom Neal: No, no, no, no. We were not married and we did not have children. We worked really hard not to have children, trust me. Dennis Neill: So, going back a little bit to when you were first feeling your identity, can you talk a little bit about your evolution of realizing what your identity is and how you experienced that early on? Tom Neal: I think the thing that's important to remember, I’m a little bit of a history nerd, so, I was born in 1957, so 1977, I was 20. Back five years, 1972, I was 15, right? If I'm doing the math right. And 1972 Stonewall had only happened three years before. 5 �There was no, there was not, I mean, if you wanted to like look at images of a male figure, I think, like, you got to check out the football players' tight pants and look at the underwear section in the Sears and Roebuck, which is all airbrushed by the way, so. So, I mean, there was no, there was no, there was no, I mean, there was actually no role models. There was nothing out there and particularly, maybe in New York or, California, but not, I don't think so even there particularly, but even less so in Tulsa, Oklahoma. My parents, who wound up over the years being tremendously supportive of TOHR and the things I did with the community, loaning me, donating at times, loaning me their truck if we needed to set up things for Pride when we did the first Pride in Owen Park. Even though they were old school conservative Republicans, not the new ones, faithful Presbyterians and in hindsight, given that I could have been born into a Baptist or some kind of evangelical kind of tradition, I'm really grateful because the Presbyterians didn't say anything homophobic. We didn't exist. They didn't acknowledge our existence, but that was more benign than certainly other options. I met a young man at Trinity recently who identified himself as a refugee from a Southern Baptist upbringing. Dennis Neill: When did you first kind of distinguish between being gay and being heterosexual or being homosexual? When did that first kind of come into your mind? Tom Neal: Puberty. I mean, puberty hit and I knew that, I'm like, okay. One of these things is not like the other and I'm like, the other dudes are like, hey, there's this girl who will meet you behind New Haven Methodist Church and you can have some fun. This is in junior high, mind you, and I'm like, I couldn't get out of the, I'll pass. I mean, I knew that I didn't want to do that, and I think that's pretty. Dennis Neill: Did you date at all in junior high? Tom Neal: Just the standard, ask a girl to go to a dance because your best buddy was going to a dance and, so you wanted to go with them and, you know. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Realizing this about yourself, that you were different, did that scare you? Tom Neal: No, but I think I was really lucky. Our mother was a woman of very, very strong character. She had endured, survived some really serious health challenges as a young woman and I think she just, I don't know, I think somehow we got imbued with that strength of character, , that I'm not the problem, y'all may have a problem, but I'm not the problem, who I am. And that's a gift from my parents that I cannot underestimate. So no, I basically… like I know that young LGBT plus people sometimes have suicidal thoughts, that kind of stuff, and I'm like, F that. I am fine. The problem is with you guys. Dennis Neill: So how did you explore your sexuality with your family, both your parents and your siblings? How did that evolve and have there been issues that have brought discomfort to either you or the family? 6 �Tom Neal: I don't think my older brothers talked about it. We didn't talk, but they're enough older. My oldest brother was born in 1949 and my next brother in 51, so they were off into the world while I was growing up. So we have a good relationship now, but we weren't, they were awake. They were off at college, one brother was in Korea. So less of an issue. My youngest brother is seven years younger, so he was a baby during some of this time. Tom Neal: Really my next younger brother, to whom I'm probably, I hate to pick favorites, closest, but we talk every day now that you can talk for free, and he somehow fell into more evangelical traditions, faith traditions. And so at times it was very difficult. I mean, for a while he worked for American Airlines and I think they still do, but particularly then they had non-revenue benefits where family members could fly for next to nothing. And at one point he was like, you're using these benefits to go do gay things and I, you can't, I forbid that you should do that because you're doing gay things. And I don't approve. And I'm like, I said, you don't tell your mother-in-law what she can go do with her non-revenue benefits, you know? So, I mean, because I was living in Dallas and I went to ILGA, which is the International Lesbian and Gay Association Conference in Stockholm. And the only reason I could do it was because I had basically an almost free ticket, though I did have some application fees and DGA, Dallas Gay Alliance, it was called then. I asked them to give me some funds to help with the trip and, so, and I... Dennis Neill: So, that is after you finished which level of education you were... Tom Neal: That was, that was after I finished up at Rice. No, that was probably after finishing both degrees, because I lived in Dallas in between the degrees, and then I lived in Dallas after the degrees, because I graduated from OU, had enough to go to work with Stan Grala, who's the G in GH2, and probably should have worked for Stan. We had a great working relationship. The H's, Mike and Kara Hall, went to work for him. Stan designed horse barns. He was an equestrian architect. Very different practice, right? But I wound up working for a firm here in Tulsa, and then I got an opportunity to work for RTKL, which is a very prestigious firm in Dallas, and I moved back to Dallas and worked for them. What was the question? Circle back. Dennis Neill: Kind of your activities in Dallas. Tom Neal: I just was involved in community stuff. Obviously kind of had the bug in. I had gotten involved in LGBT plus activism at OU, because we were trying to get a nondiscrimination policy for OU, which the university did not have, and they were not particularly willing. They were actually quite unwilling to add that on, and so we lobbied the Board of Trustees, Board of Regents. I went to a black alumni dinner once to talk to the one black regent, just to see, because it was the only opportunity to get face-to-face with her. Since this happened, OU's gotten there. I wish it got there a lot faster, much to my chagrin. I think Laura [Belmonte] was a big part of that, to be honest. I kind of found my voice there. I never really wanted, thought I would be an activist. So I'd gone there because I already had an undergraduate degree. My course load was lighter. My first year was, so I didn't have to do all the distributions. All I had to do was the architecture 7 �program. Well, the first year I got most of that out of the way, so my second year I'm like, and I ran for the Student Congress, and got elected, and again was just really agitating to try to get all this, and then when I came, after I finished up, I kind of continued that in the community, and that was in Dallas. I was involved with GLAAD, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, which at that time, it was not a single office national organization. It was a bunch of chapters around the country. There was a chapter in San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, obviously D.C., maybe Atlanta, I don't know for sure, but one in Dallas, and got involved with that. And my dear friend of mine, CeCe Cox, who's from Bartlesville, who's been the head of the gay, the equivalent of OkEq in Dallas, was kind of my comrade-in-arms in that, and we kind of built GLAAD and went to organizing meetings. In the process of trying to create a national GLAAD organization, we had meetings all over the country to do that. Dennis Neill: How were you finding the fight at OU? Tom Neal: At OU? I am class of 89, and I went there in 87, so it would have been between 87 and 89. Dennis Neill: And did you have an organized gay or lesbian group on campus that was helping you? Tom Neal: Yeah, yeah, we did. Dennis Neill: Were you very involved in that? Tom Neal: I was one of the leaders of that at one point. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Let me ask you about that. Tom Neal: Yeah. Dennis Neill: You were working on a graduate degree in architecture at that time or another undergraduate… Tom Neal: So I actually took a second undergraduate degree, but in architecture, you can do a four-year degree, but then you have to have a two-year master's in order to have a qualifying degree to be professionally licensed. Or you can do a five-year degree, which qualifies you for professional licensing. So I went and spent two more years, combined with my other undergraduates, to get a B-Arch, which is a five-year degree. In hindsight, I wish I had gotten a master's, because later, I wound up teaching at TCC, and if I had had a master's, I could have continued teaching. But anyway, that's... Maty Bishop-Baldwin: So while you were there, you said there were no protections for LGBT people. Tom Neal: Correct. 8 �Mary Bishop-Baldwin: But yet, you were willing to put your face and your name out there and say, hey, I'm gay, and we need these protections. What gave you the strength and courage to do that when you knew that you could be expelled just for being gay? Tom Neal: Well, I don't think they were actually doing… I don't know that they would have done that. I guess they could have technically, but I don't think they would have because they'd have to, they'd lose way too much of the university. But two, I would go back to my blessed mother whose, courage in life, kind of informed, my, I don't know, maybe it's the Zodiac is somewhat esoteric, but, Leo, I mean, I'm like I'm right and they're wrong. Dennis Neill: Could you post posters about your meetings? Were you undercover… Tom Neal: No, we were not undercover and in fact I think we had student funding like any other student organization. Somebody else had won that battle before I got there and because they started, I was not there then. But every student organization needs a faculty sponsor, and our faculty sponsor was a groundbreaking African-American professor, Dr. Henderson- I can't remember his first name, not gay, not even remotely gay, but committed to the notion that people, all people, should be treated fairly, and as a black man understanding some of that struggle. Dr. Henderson agreed to be the faculty sponsor and, like I say he'd been that for some time. He didn't really do anything day to day. You know we had to have a signature, I think once a year and yeah, so you know there was another advantage. My blessed father paid for my tuition, so I wasn't dependent on scholarships. I had a certain amount of economic invulnerability. I went back to OU when I was 29, and at 29, hopefully you've got your act together a little bit better and you know I'm like… Dennis Neill: what was the name of the organization? Tom Neal: That's a good question, Dennis. I can't remember. I could probably Google it, it's probably out there with like everything else. Dennis Neill: So, being in an architectural program at OU, did you have any background on Bruce Goff and his role at OU? Do you want... about what you encountered at OU and then the subsequent history, if you know about how OU kind of redeemed Bruce Goff? Tom Neal: Well, it's really interesting because I wound up again my last year- I had a little extra time, so I was involved as a student representative of different things, like we had a lecture committee, and I was the student rep and this kind of stuff. And I remember having lunch. We had an Englishman who was one of our professors there and they brought a speaker- in no idea who that speaker was. I was invited to lunch at the faculty club or whatever, and we were having lunch with him and they were talking about Bruce Goff. But at that point he was like we don't talk about the fact that Bruce Goff was a gay man and that the university was hostile to him during some of that time, and I of course brought that up and I thought the English guy was going to kind of have a little fainting spell perhaps. But yeah, no, certainly, even then Bruce Goff has certainly been radically embraced by the university. Now wasn't as much then. They weren't, but 9 �they were proud of his work. They just didn't want to talk about the- you know the not so pretty history of how the university treated him. Dennis Neill: If you go into the architectural school at OU now, do you see evidence of Bruce Goff? Tom Neal: I would imagine, though I have not been back in some years. I haven't been in that building since I served on the Tulsa Preservation Commission for three years and we had a training session at OU and that's the last time I was there, but that was when Dewey Bartlett was mayor. So that gives you- I can't remember the date on that, but that's been seven or eight years at least, if not maybe longer. Dennis Neill: Where were you when you first learned about HIV-AIDS? Tom Neal: Oh, absolutely, I lived in Los Angeles, which is one of the epicenters. LA, New York, San Francisco were all hit hard and I had a couple of kind of best older, best friend, gay guys who had been my neighbors and they kind of adopted me. They were like my gay uncles, and they started. My friend Kerry got sick first and then wound up... it was the classic early, what are we talking? Nineteen, eighty-three, probably about eighty-three, because I graduated from Rice in eighty and lived a couple years in Dallas, went to California and Kerry and Phillip were partners. We lived in the same loft building in downtown Los Angeles before it was stylish to do so, by the way, it was right in between Little Tokyo, which was nice, and Skid Row, which was not so nice, and we were closer to Skid Row. But they were my neighbors there and then we also wound up living in an apartment building in mid-Wilshire, much nicer part of town. Kerry got sick, wound up in part of the big hospital, public hospital. It was east of downtown and in those days people got pneumonia, they died. It's that fast and nobody knew what the hell was going on. You know Kerry… digressing slightly, well, he was from Indiana, so he went home, Philip went with him, I flew back. In those days it was prior to 9-11, so you could like, I actually took a thing of sushi because he wanted sushi. So I carried sushi halfway across the country and then he couldn't eat it because he just wasn't feeling well. Those were kind of dire days. And I remember going to get my first HIV test, which at that time nobody in Los Angeles was doing it. The only place was the center in Long Beach. You drove 30 miles to Long Beach and then you waited for two weeks because it was not an instant test, and thanks be to God. You know I'm- the term had not been invented yet- but I realized that I'm probably demisexual, which means I kind of like to know people before I have sex with them. I'm not going to go into too much sex here, but so I think that probably might have…maybe didn't get infected because of that, because I'm like I just am not comfortable with this and so, but that was not the ethos at the time. Dennis Neill: I'd like to spend a little bit more time about your personal knowledge of HIV/AIDS, since it's shaped generations, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you first encountered it in LA and you've been in Dallas and Tulsa. Just talk a little bit more about your path in activism particularly related to HIV/AIDS. 10 �Tom Neal: I think to be honest, I focused more on civil rights issues because there were already a lot of people working on HIV issues, particularly when I wound up back in Tulsa after 93. TOHR had the testing program that later became HOPE. So those kind of were covered when I was involved in TOHR leadership. Of course we were, they were us and we were they and you know being supportive of the two programs. it's just, I don't know, it's just, I mean I'm a regular visitor here for the testing program. So I even brought my… I had a foster kid for a while and I brought my foster kid because he's like I need to get tested. And I said, and my foster kid was straight, very straight, extremely straight, and I said, Nathan, your risk factors are really, really low. I mean, I'm sure we can do this, but I don't see…What I didn't know, the other tests they do, along with the HIV test, is syphilis. Yeah, my foster kid tested positive for that. So we had a little conversation about safer sex as well as the concept of statutory rape, because I think the young lady with whom he'd been involved, who apparently was the initiator, I said it doesn't matter if she initiates it, if she's 14, you're going to prison. He was 17. So yeah, sorry, I have a little ADD, and so we, my conversations, are almost always meandering, so I don't know really how to add to that. It's always been kind of part of, I mean, I feel, on some level, I think any of us, you know gay men, but lesbians too, not necessarily for the same reason. We've all kind of been informed and scarred by that experience, because… Dennis Neill: Have you lost many acquaintances or friends to AIDS. Tom Neal: Some, probably would have been more if I'd spent more time in more exclusively gay circles. But, like I say, in Los Angeles I was going to architecture school. And the majority of the people I was around were heterosexual. So at least in that time their exposure and their risk factors were a lot lower. So enough, particularly Kerry and Philip. I mean I remember I kept up with Philip after Kerry died and Philip was from, he was from Massachusetts and went back there and I remember thinking I need to call, I need to call, I need to call see how he's doing. But I kept putting it off because I was really I was afraid that I would hear that he had died. And I finally called and I got his mother and he was, he was very, very Italian Catholic family, you know. So I mean, that was his Boston identity and we had a sad conversation, because she was like she- not her exact words, but it was like honey, you know. Now he's gone, you know. So anyway, yeah, I don't know. Dennis Neill: I should have asked you this earlier: design has been kind of your life. What was your stimulus that got you so interested in design work and was there any other career path that you considered other than architectural? Tom Neal: Well, I published a newspaper for eight years, so without any formal journalistic training other than the writing that I alluded to at Holland Hall, and then if you're in an art history program, basically art history is dealt with by writing about it, right? So I think I developed those but, and that I kind of more fell into might also have been kind of an outgrowth from the work with GLAAD, an awareness of how critical media is to our community towards representation. 11 �But the architecture stuff, I think it was always an interest. So my mother is from a little tiny town called Wewoka in east central Oklahoma and my grandfather had a barber shop in downtown Wewoka next to the movie theater. He'd always wanted to be a physician, but his father had what we now call Alzheimer's or dementia and wound up in the state. My great-grandfather would have been in the state hospital in Norman, because that's all they had, that's all they could do. Tom Neal: So he wound up being a barber because he had, like I don't know, half a dozen siblings and somebody had to help take care of them. So and my grandmother learned to be a beautician. They had the barber shop in front and the beautician shop in the back and in those days, you had magazines galore, right, because pre-Internet we didn't all look at our phones, so you had like the hunting magazines and the sports magazines in the barber shop in the back they had like House Beautiful, House and Garden and whatever those kind of things, and some of them would show one of the magazines would have plans, would have the floor plans of the houses, and I remember being you know little kid, I was fascinated. I would sit in the barber shop or in the beauty shop, depending, and look at the magazines and study the plans. The interest was there. I also think that if you think about left brain, right brain and wiring the way, I think I have a memory which also fits with an art history degree. I have a strong visual memory, much more so than other things, so like for love or for money, I can probably not remember the name of a song or song lyrics. That kind of information is like gone as soon as it's in my head it's gone, but visual stuff stays with me and, by way of example, years ago I was, I had worked for 10 years doing kitchen bath design for Home Depot while I kind of did my practice on the side. So I met a lot of people. It's a downtown store, very diverse, you know north side, south side, midtown, wherever- and I'd gone into Petty's- and God rest its soul right. So for something I didn't usually shop there- and there was an older, very distinguished couple and I said, oh, Tom, how nice to see you and I'm going… Usually I can remember faces but I'm like I have no idea who these people are, not a clue. You helped us with our kitchen, this, that and the other, and we still love it three or four years later. And they said: and that island. And I said, oh, the island. Oh, wait, a minute now did we do this, this? And this wasn't the island, kind of like this. I remembered the island. I could not remember who they were, but I could remember the visual, the design that we did for that. I think for better, for worse, that's where my brain wiring is. And I'm at the risk of being immodest, I'm pretty good at what I do because I think I'm working with my natural tendencies or skillset. Right. Dennis Neill: So you bring up your interest in writing and, excuse me, journalism. Let's talk a little bit more about your early introduction into publication and writing. And I do recall, right, Tom, that you were a writer for the Parachute. And I believe that was Chuck Breckridge. Tom Neal: Who's still in town. Yes. Reverend Chuck. Good. That'll be wonderful. Dennis Neill: So just talk us through, kind of chronologically, your interest in journalism, how you got involved and how the new world has impacted journalism and why you decided to stop publishing. 12 �Tom Neal: So I came back to Tulsa, I, at that point was, I mean, I had my little retail store that I wanted to do, but I also needed something else to make a little bit more money. And so Chuck was doing a newspaper, he was based in Wichita, but he was distributing the paper here. And he, I think, offered a job to sell advertising for him. So I took that with the understanding I would also write, I would write to him, I'd be the local writer. And I did that for him for a few months before I realized that I could do it myself and cut out the boss, which maybe is not very nice, but, and so that's when I started Tulsa Family News, title, definitely deliberately ironic. And but with, we were, I had an AP subscription, it was, the intention was to be within the boundaries of my skills, as good and as serious of a newspaper as we could do. And I did that, I think it was eight years. I later, the store closed because the lease ended. And I was also, I don't smoke. And being in a smoky bar till two o'clock in the morning, most of the nights of the week was just a little much. And I wound up taking a job at Home Depot and fell into the design position then. And I was just burning myself the candle at both ends, it was just too much to work full time, do the newspaper. And I finally, after eight years, just said, I’ve, I just, I can't do this. It was right on the edge of the transformation because of the Internet and that kind of thing. If you think about Dennis and Mary, when I came back to Tulsa, we were just beginning to have cell phones, because I remember the number I still had today is one that I got through the LGBT business group that, there was somebody offering cell phones at a discount to the group, and that was my first cell phone. And then personal computers were just coming in, well, had just started coming in when I was at OU in 1989, because they had the first very rudimentary CAD programs, Computer Aided Drafting. At the time I was doing this it met a need in the community, in my opinion, continue to fight battles, like trying to get Tulsa City County Public Library to let us be in the library, free distribution, which they offered without question or restriction to everybody until we ask, God bless Pat Woodrum. And then they changed the rules so that they didn't have to let us in. And I think that went on until I, let's see if I can remember his name, he was a County Commissioner at the time, and he's since, I think he lives mostly in Buena Vista, Colorado these days, but I got a hold of him and said, this would probably be a really good First Amendment lawsuit, and really embarrassing for the City County Library system that they are not allowing a publication in when their whole purpose is to promote publications and reading, and shortly after that the policy changed. Dennis Neill: To allow you back in? Tom Neal: Yeah. To allow us, yeah. Dennis Neill: Do you recall what time frame we're talking about, and how long it took to resolve? 13 �Tom Neal: I think I was doing the publication between about 94, 93, 94, and eight years later, so around 2000, so it was sometime in that period. Maybe his name is Bob, I could look it up, but yeah, yeah. You would recognize the name, yeah. Dennis Neill: And was it every two months, is that when… Tom Neal: Every month. Every month. Dennis Neill: And then who actually printed the publication? Tom Neal: Well, so that was another thing. I got turned down left and right by printers, by other people, and I finally happened to talk to Dave, I can't remember Dave's last name, more of those escaping names, but he was the publisher of the Claremore Daily News, and I drove up to Claremore, and they published it for me, and then I went back to Claremore, got it, and then I dragged my backside all over town distributing it, you know. So it was pretty much a one-person show, me, me, and me. Dennis Neill: But now, how was John Christjohn… Tom Neal: At the time, he and I were living together… Dennis Neill: As partners? Tom Neal: Yeah and we had met in Dallas and then he moved up here and we're still friends. Full disclosure, he is a tenant in one of my garage apartments. It's kind of hard to find a place to live when you have three or four dogs and no money. So not trying to throw him under the bus too much. But anyway, so he wrote for me because he was kind of part of it and sometimes, he helped with parts of it. I had a number of writers. My friend Merry Schepers, I think wrote, something about the handy lesbian or something. She did home improvement stuff. There was Mark Wright who's an attorney, Native American attorney who I think lives in DC now and he would do food reviews and honest God, the ladies who started Wild Fork, he wrote a horrible, horrible, mean review of them. And I'm like, I'm gonna publish it. Try not to censor my writers. And they were furious at me for years and did not believe me that I, they thought I'd written it. And I'm like, I'm not that much of a foodie and no, there is a person, I'm not gonna tell you his name because that's part of the deal, but I did not write it. And I think they may have forgiven me, but for about 10 years I'm pretty sure they didn't forgive me, so. Dennis Neill: How about Dyke Devine? Was she a column in your paper? You recall that? Tom Neal: Maybe. I don't remember. Dennis Neill: I think that might have been Anna Dodwell that wrote it. Tom Neal: Yeah, it might have been. Yeah, yeah, because Anna and I are still, I don't think she lives here now. Tom Neal: Yes, she does. 14 �Tom Neal: I know we, I think we're Facebook connected, but you know. Yeah, yeah. Dennis Neill: So looking over your eight years of publications, what do you consider your greatest achievement, like a storyline or investigative report? What is one of your proudest moments of being a publisher? Tom Neal: Two things. I think I did, early on, did an interview with Susan Savage, which, I mean, getting a major, to our city, public official to interview with an LGBT publication, I think that was kind of a nice little coup. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: She was mayor at the time. Tom Neal: She was mayor at the time. I kind of had to shame her into it, so, but we got there. And, and then I did an interview with Steve Largent, who was either running for Congress, no, I think he was running for Congress, but later was our congressman, first district congressman, with whom I had tremendous political, theological and philosophical differences, but he was always very, very civil. He was a very decent man, at least interacting with him as a person. I like those, those two things. I think just surviving for eight years is maybe an accomplishment. Speaker 3: What was the rest of the question? Tom Neal: There was something. Dennis Neill: That was really it. How about a low, where you really feel like... Tom Neal: The lowest low, and you might appreciate this, is when I misspelled Tahlequah in the headline above the fold. That chapped my backside. You needed a copy editor, didn't you? But it was me, me, me, me, and me. I was, I was, and it was like, it was in print. I had however many copies I had printed every month before I even realized. I'm like, oh, something about some community organizing in Tahlequah or something with Northeastern State. I don't remember that. All I remember is that I screwed it up with the spelling. That, that really, I mean, I'm sure there are other things. I think there may have been a story that they jumped and then disappeared. But, considering that that has happened in major, in like the Tulsa World and other publications, and they had a lot more people to help them than I did, maybe I'll cut myself some slack. Dennis Neill: So, Mary, you have some other questions around journalism. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Let's see, when you were writing for Chuck Breckenridge for his publication, and you thought, I can do this myself, how did it feel to go out on your own in competition with him, the man who had been your boss? Tom Neal: Well, we had not worked together for very long. I mean, it was probably only maybe three or four months. And again, I have tried over the years to make a point to be civil with people, even with whom I've had an argument in the past, or with whom I have lots of disagreements. I mean, God rest her and Joe's soul, but Nancy MacDonald and I did not see eye to eye on a whole lot of stuff, and I was very vocal about it, and I wrote about it at times, and pissed off…I think there are still gay men in this community for 15 �whom Nancy was a saint, and they're angry at me about it. But she was like another mother, or at least an aunt, and Joe and my father are the same generation, and he practiced at St. John's, he was an anesthesiologist as well. So, I mean, I guess my point is, I kind of strayed away from your original question, but my point is, we've got to be nice to each other. Even if we, I mean, I'm sure I pissed you [Dennis] off about something somewhere along the way, though you've always been so kind and gracious to me, you know. So, I'm sure there have been other people. Well, Tim and I have struggled, you know. God bless him, but even we, these days at least, I think are civil. Yes, sir? Dennis Neill: So, what was your competition during that period of time? Of course, the Gayly has continued to publish over this period of time, and just knowledge about other publications would be very helpful during your era, or really any of the time that you weren't even publishing, your interest in the other journalistic world reaching out to our community. Tom Neal: Really, other than the Parachute, there have been things before. Oklahoma City, I mean, the Gayly has always been kind of OKC-centric, you know. I mean, and it was, maybe they're doing better now, but at that time they really, they were distributed in Tulsa, but they didn't really cover Tulsa to a meaningful degree. I think Chuck got busy with other, I don't know that he continued, I don't remember how long he continued the Parachute after that. Next thing I know, he's here and he's working in a religious capacity rather than this. To be honest, Dennis, I don't think there was much. But again, about the time I was shutting down was about the time that everything, the Internet exploded, you didn't need a local news. When I started, you couldn't get this news any place else to any significant degree. I was going through AP specifically, Associated Press, specifically looking for stories of interest to the community. The Tulsa World was not covering LGBT plus stuff, and the local broadcast media, and of course I'm a print snob anyway, so, I think TV broadcast is kind of stupid news, but it has reach. Dennis Neill: So do you have any background on the Star or the Metro Star? I think they may have come after you. Tom Neal: I don't remember them much, to be honest. Dennis Neill: I guess there was some perspective, but also a publication around it. Tom Neal: Yeah, I just, again, since I don't really go out, I mean, and that was true even when I wasn't 68 years old. Dennis Neill: And, as a sign of the times, this is the month that the Gayly had to go all digital, they no longer do hard print. Tom Neal: I did not know that, wow. Dennis Neill: Yeah, Robin's been so loyal, continue that publication, but just financially realized that she could not continue to sustain a hard copy. 16 �Tom Neal: You don't do journalism for the money. It's like teaching a TCC, you don't do it for the money. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: I can verify that. Tom Neal: Yes, ma'am. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: Adjunct? No, I meant about journalism. Tom Neal: Oh, yeah, about journalism, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dennis Neill: So, Tom, let's talk a little bit more about your role and knowledge and involvement with OHR, then TOHR, and then Oklahomans for Equality. So we first formed the organization in 1980. When was your first exposure to what was then OHR? Tom Neal: 1980? Probably about three years after that, and I think it had become TOHR at that point. Dennis Neill: 1985. Tom Neal: Okay. Maybe it was, yeah, maybe, yeah. I don't know. I do remember going down and going to the Aaronson Auditorium, and there was Doug Hartson, greeter par excellence, and, it was, there was always kind of a program, I've told the kids running this place they need to go back and do that some, they need to have periodic meetings and a program of some kind, but we'll see. And then, like I say, and then I was back at OU, so I was out of the picture, and I was in Dallas, and then I was back from Dallas, so... Dennis Neill: And you said in 84 was when you came back to Tulsa, is that right? Tom Neal: Yeah, I think, I think, yeah, that's why I wasn't around for OHR. I spent, maybe, I'm fuzzy with numbers, it's kind of like song lyrics and titles, I get, I have to have something to tie a memory to, but class of 80, Rice, two years in Dallas, I thought it was four years, but maybe three or four years in Los Angeles, and then back, and then working in Tulsa, probably for two or three years before I went to OU in 87. Somehow that math doesn't add up, so, maybe I was in one of those places less long than I remember, so. Dennis Neill: So you would have been dating my roommate, Mike Williams, and that would have been around 87 and 88. Tom Neal: Yeah, right before I went to OU, and that's when you and John first met, if memory serves me, and you were in that house over on Cincinnati or Boston, one of those places. Dennis Neill: Yeah, Boston Court. Tom Neal: Yeah, and I think I just signed a carport for you guys. Dennis Neill: Uh-huh, that's correct. Tom Neal: I forgot about that. 17 �Dennis Neill: So tell me a little bit about that time frame, so you were here for, I guess, a short period of time. Tom Neal: A couple years. Dennis Neill: Were you dating Mike while you were in Tulsa, or were you also... Tom Neal: No, I, we petered out, I don't know, I don't remember what happened, but yeah, I was dating him when I was in Tulsa. There's another guy with red hair, whose name I can't remember. That was when Kathleen, when I first went to work for her, she worked out of her house over by, well, kind of not far from your house, that same neighborhood. And then she went into this old red brick building over here off of, over on 3rd Street, it's kind of isolated by itself, Detroit, right, 4th and Detroit, right there, and she worked there, and then I went to OU. I'll be blunt, I don't think I've had great luck with relationships. Mr. Christjohn being one of the last ones, and it is flawed and toxic in many respects, but it's of many years' acquaintanceship. Dennis Neill: Then, 83, 84, you're back, I mean, sorry, 93, 94, you're back in Tulsa. Tom Neal: Right. Dennis Neill: You've got the store going on Silver Star, you've got your publication going, and then how did the TOHR come on your radar when you came back and your involvement, including being on the board and president? Tom Neal: Yeah, well, I got involved because I got involved in Pride, because I went to that first, I just was barely back in town and went to Pride, and it was in Mohawk Park, much to my chagrin. It was like hidden, and it was swampy, we'd had rains, not surprising, early summer in Tulsa, it was rainy, that's flood land, and it was just a big stinkin' mess. Dennis Neill: And do you recall, was TOHR actually the sponsor, or was that when the bars were still doing Pride? Tom Neal: I think it was the bars, it was the bars, because, and I had kind of an in with it, because I was, I had just started renting space from John and, was it John and Steve, who owned the Silver Star, and so I got involved in organizing it, and pushed to move it, and we moved it to Owen Park. Dennis Neill: So the next year? Tom Neal: The next year. Dennis Neill: So would that be, do you think, 94 or 95, or can you kind of? Tom Neal: Probably 94, probably 94. And that was one of the years that Mom and Dad lent me the truck, and that was, and we think, I think it was in Owen Park for a couple of years, maybe, and then other people took it over and it went different places, I mean, at one point, the parade went on Brookside, right? Dennis Neill: Yes. 18 �Tom Neal: On Riverside. Dennis Neill: The information we have, and you'll probably have a little more since you're the board president doing this, you might recall that Greg Gatewood got very involved and helped organize the 1998 Pride, which was down the sidewalks, because we didn't have a permit. Tom Neal: Right, I remember that, I covered that. Dennis Neill: And so I think Nancy and Greg worked together, and then in 99, Greg pursued the permit. So that was the first time we had it at what is now Dream Keepers, which was the Veterans Park, and we're not exactly sure when TOHR stepped back in to run Pride, but you probably were present at about around that time, I think. Tom Neal: So I think probably it's very possible that I might have kind of made that happen, that the bartenders, the bar crew kind of they were still there but kind of stepped back and I think they were only doing it because nobody else was. We also had a lot of pushback from people who were very uncomfortable moving out of the far reaches of Mohawk Park because Mohawk felt safe, and I had Owen Park, particularly at that time, a fairly neglected part of the city. it's a long way from Edison Street. It's the only major street through there. Y'all are still gonna be pretty safe and isolated in there, but it's got shade and it doesn't flood, you know. So I mean it was pretty prosaic in some place in this time, because it was definitely before Greg, Deborah Starnes and IDeborah was president at TOHR and we signed the lease for the building on Brookside that now that had a sushi place recently in the bottom, over at near Weber's Root Beer. You know it's kind of a 1940s building and owned by a local slumlord. We got lucky that we wrote into the contract that we had to make sure that the elevator was working, which apparently hadn't worked for ten years, and he had to drop some change to get it working. But we got the working elevator. I think we poured a tiny bit of concrete at the front step to make a semi-ramp to get people in and that was where you know there was, and Peterson- Claudette Peterson, was up there and one of my memories is when we were trying to get it ready to use, there was no big room in there. It had been a dental practice, is my memory, and so there are all these little rooms and we got in there and it was the bunch of guys from FUSO, which was an AfricanAmerican men's HIV outreach organization, and there's nothing like having four or five black queens with sledgehammers and me taking out the solid plaster and metal lath walls between these like five or six rooms to create the bigger room so we'd actually have a meeting space up there and fortunately they were not structural. I did check, I did check, but yeah, so we, got that all out and created that room and, I wound up putting a flagpole made out of just a galvanized metal pipe from Home Depot and clamps- because, again, we had no money, we had no budget- up on the top of the elevator shaft and we had this enormous five-by-eight flag that I bought through my store, and it kept getting stolen. People would come and take it, take it, but, yeah, but it was remarkable because suddenly, Tulsa, Oklahoma, with relatively little LGBT plus visibility, there's this big-ass gay pride flag flying over Brookside. It was really kind of lovely. Deborah Starnes and I actually personally put whatever limited funds we had at risk by signing that lease because we were personally on the hook for it. 19 �Dennis Neill: So what was the stimulus of moving from where we are at 39th and Harvard? And who actually did the research to find the space? Tom Neal: That space? I think of Deborah and I… Dennis Neill: On Brookside, did you look at several different locations? Tom Neal: I think so at one point. Now, Tim Gillian would be a good person to talk to about that, because I know he was involved in some of the researching, because I remember- and Nancy was involved as well, because at one point, we went and looked at the freaking Ambassador Hotel as a gay pride center. It was a ruin at the time before he had been renovated into this. obviously, top-flight hotel. It had been empty for at least 10 years, maybe 20 years. We, I remember looking at that. We looked at what is now the Circle Cinema. This is obscure, lost, almost lost, facts, isn't it? Dennis Neill: Yeah, we actually looked at it again in 2022. I mean 2002. Tom Neal: Yeah, Circle Cinema, part of the back roof or something was coming down on it. Somehow, and I don't know if Nancy got like Nancy was pushing, she was, she was a suburbanist at heart, so she was always pushing…Oh, we can find this shopping center out here, and I'm like we need to be more urban. Gay people use that term broadly and generically. 41st and Hudson is not an ideal location, though they made it work there, you know so. So, yeah, so that we, yeah, we did that and it was there for a while. And then there was Steve H, I don't remember. Took over Horn, yeah, came after me, and then Greg and Kerry. Then at that point I'd step back. Dennis Neill: And was it your store that was in the center? Because there's that store… Tom Neal: At a certain point I think I just gave or sold. I don't think I mostly gave the leftover merchandise I did to the center to use to sell for their benefit. Tom Neal: I don't think, because once I once- you know Steve and John, God bless himhad some dude out of Oklahoma City who thought he could- he also had a newspaper, very short-lived, and thought he could have a newspaper and have a store and still live in Oklahoma City, and so they basically said: eh, we're doubling your rent and I'm like this is not a viable project at double rent, it's barely viable at the current rent. Thanks, guys, no hard feelings. That's when I kind of shut it down, I think at one point I tried to do some sales out of one of the MCC churches, but it wasn't really…Tulsa's a challenge because there is no really gay community, physical, geographical gay community. Dennis Neill: During your period as president on the board we still have the testing clinic. I interviewed Jeremy Simmons a couple of months ago and he recalls that we did create the name Hope while it was at TOHR and all he can remember is it was kind of like a committee decision to come up with Hope. He couldn't really remember the individual that came up with that name, any recollection. 20 �Tom Neal: I don't know that. I was not part of those conversations. My recollection is they had decided and there were problems with some of the state funding- the state was being kind of homophobic is my recollection, but I don't put money on that oneand they- Jeremy in particular and others- really felt like they needed to separate from TOHR in order to continue to get the funding that they were getting from the state. And some of us were really opposed to that, just probably more because we were being cantankerous and like no, no change is scary, you know. They came in and did a really good reading of the bylaws and came in and did an emergency ambush meeting and basically just overrode the vote and separated themselves out, which probably in hindsight I guess that was the right thing to have done. Dennis Neill: Were you president at that point in time? Tom Neal: I think I might have been. Dennis Neill: And so, maybe is that when you left maybe Dee Beasley became president, or who was your vice president. Do you recall? Tom Neal: Um, no, I do not recall, but Steve Horn succeeded me. Directly after me was Steve Horn, and then, directly after him, he got a job in Dallas or someplace out of town, and then it was Greg. The only person I can think… Dennis Neill: I think maybe Dee after… Tom Neal: I don’t remember, I don’t… Dennis Neill: Dee was only president for about three months Tom Neal: I don't know when that was. The only person I would mention because he was a stalwart. John Stanley was on my board. He wasn't vice president; he was just a great trooper who would do whatever he could to help and he passed. Dennis Neill: Fortunately, we do have an interview with him. Morgan [Allen], I think around 2002. So we have his transcript on our website. Mary Bishop-Baldwin: In 2002?? Dennis Neill: No, I’m sorry, in 22. Yeah, yeah, 2022. Tom Neal: I knew what you meant. No, well, and Morgan sang a really plaintive appellation, a cappella song, at his memorial service here. Yeah, it's just achingly beautiful, and I know her from Trinity Choir. She's in the choir, I'm not, and I asked her if she would do it and it was really kind. Dennis Neill: So, Tom, coming back to the period in the 1990s when you were acting with the TOHR, do you remember when you first got involved with the organization and what kind of caused you to be so interested in taking action and a leadership role in the organization? 21 �Tom Neal: I think I more fell into it than anything else. There was maybe a vacuum. You know somebody needed to do it and nobody else seemed to be stepping up again, coming back and doing Pride literally within a week, a couple of weeks, of having returned to the city, like end of May and coming in June, and pride was in June still then. And then the next year, and you know just the realization this could be done better. And so next year, I kind of did that, I think, a couple years, and then, like I say, Debra Starnes and I got along pretty well and she ran for president and then I think she had something that she had to step down and I was vice president and so became president. I don't remember if I got reelected in my own right or not, if I just finished out her term, I just don't remember at this point. But proud of the fact that though we did not own it, but for the first time in Tulsa's history there was a physical LGBT plus center for the community Dennis Neill: Speaking of that, Greg recalls, Greg Gatewood recalls when you first put the signage up and Greg mentioned that, he said: if we put that sign up, I know there's going to be a car wreck on Brookside by people eyeing that sign and he said that day we put it up, sure enough there was a fender bender right in front of the building because somebody was looking at the sign and not paying attention. So do you recall some of those early days of the center, some of the vandalism? Tom Neal: I know we had a little bit of vandalism. I don't remember a lot of details, I think maybe somebody broke the front door one time, Dennis Neill: The glass twice. Tom Neal: Was it twice? Maybe I'm a little bit of a Pollyanna. I try to see the positive. So I maybe, I just don't remember. I mainly remember the flag being stolen because I personally was up there on the roof putting it back up and buying another one and so forth. But just in general, the only other thing I can really remember distinctly is when there was an event for Chaz Bono. You know Cher's son these days. At the time I think she still identified as a woman and I remember taking pictures of Chaz and Nancy McDonald talking in that hallway, in that great hall or small great hall that we created. Dennis Neill: I think she was here, wasn't she for a fundraiser? I believe we had it at the downtown Doubletree. I can't remember if it was for TOHR or if it was for PFLAG. Tom Neal: Could have been either, could have been either. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dennis Neill: And were you involved with PFLAG through these years? Tom Neal: Certainly, when I was doing the newspaper, I was very supportive of PFLAG and I think I would assume that I probably donated advertising to them, certainly covered events that they had them. I seem to recall that they were often meeting at Fellowship Congregational there on Harvard and somewhere along the way became friends with the late Reverend Russell Bennett, great, great hero of mine, again kind of taking the stand back in the day when very few people were. I mean in those days, if you remember, again, before we started interviewing, we were talking about NCCJ [National Conference for Christians and Jews] and sometimes not always having support from parts of the community from whom you might have expected to get it, and I remember 22 �that Russell was out there very, very supportive, even at times when, for example, All Souls was not. They were just kind of ducking the issue, which is ironic because they were very welcoming of LGBT people as individuals, but they were not putting any of their credibility as a congregation on the line at the time, or at least that was my perception of things. Obviously not where they are today. You know so, but at that time, you know also, you know my parish Trinity was supportive of individuals, but not as out there. That whole denomination has made progress. Likewise, you know the Methodists and the Presbyterians. Dennis Neill: And was this about the time the Say No to Hate Coalition formed, or was that after your time? Do you think? Tom Neal: I think after. Again, I'm not the best person with dates. Dennis Neill: Yeah, I think it might have been after, because I know at one time I was fairly involved with it. But then Laura was very, very involved. I think she chaired it for a while. That was probably when she was president in 2004 - 2007, time frame. So talk a little bit about some of your highs and lows while you were so involved with TOHR in those early 90s. Tom Neal: I think I kind of feel like I've covered those. I mean, really. Dennis Neill: Were you having monthly meetings then? Y Tom Neal: Yeah, I think so. I think so. Dennis Neill: At that center? Tom Neal: I think so, I think so at the center, yeah. Not enormously attended, but I haven't seen enormous attendance of anything in the community since maybe the really early days at Aaronson, when it was literally almost the only game in town. So, other than I guess the bars that were all over the place. Certainly with the Internet, with people meeting each other electronically these days, I mean, there's what, maybe three bars left now, and I don't go to bars anyway. It was already a somewhat scattered community compared to maybe Dallas or Houston, where you had, a physical center to the places. And I think with the changes in media, it's even more scattered. Dennis Neill: So are you comfortable being called an activist? Tom Neal: Yeah, sure. I think it's a worthy title. I don't think these days I would make that claim anymore. I've stepped back, I’ve really focused on my, my work, my design practice. I don't remember if I mentioned to you, but I'm taking a class at TU, which I love being on campus. It's, they call it lifelong learning. It's not for credit. I call it classes for old people. It's really good because since I work out of my home and my work companions are a dog and three cats, it's nice to interact with like… Dennis Neill: What are you taking at TU? 23 �Tom Neal: I am taking Spanish. I'm just finishing my fourth semester there, motivated, prompted by a trip to Spain with one of my nephews. And I had been using Duolingo to try to learn some Spanish. And I came back from that trip feeling like I needed more formal instruction. And originally thought I'd try to take something at TCC. I had taught adjunct there for nine semesters, but they didn't have anything that wasn't online. And I wanted an in-person class. And then I live literally seven minutes by bicycle from TU. I'm like, I live across from a major university. Let me see what they have to offer. And I wound up, and it was very interesting as this long-haired senior citizen walking into a classroom full of mostly freshmen, 18- and 19-year-olds, whose eyes are getting big. It's like, who is this old guy in the class? And I'm looking like, God, they look like they're 14. It's been a really good experience. And my Spanish is progressing. Dennis Neill: Cool. So at TCC, what were you teaching? Tom Neal: I taught both art appreciation and humanities one. Dennis Neill: Did you feel welcome as an adjunct professor at TCC? Tom Neal: Yes, certainly. No issues because I was gay. Well, adjuncts are overworked and underappreciated, generally speaking. Every, probably every place in the nation, but it was a good experience. I stumbled into it. It was actually a random conversation I was having with another person, closer to my age, in the men's locker room, because I used to work for 10 years, maybe, well, maybe it's 20 years. Many years I worked out at the TCC Fitness Center because it was so close to Home Depot where I was working. And I had a conversation with a guy named Ralph saying, my undergrads in art history. I'd love to teach someday. And he said, hmm, my wife's in charge of making those assignments. I said, oh, well, tell her I would be interested. And a couple months later, I get a call at 4.45 PM on a Friday saying, we really, somebody's dropped out. And could you teach this class starting on Tuesday at 10 a.m.? Indeed, I can, but I had never seen the textbook. I hadn't seen a syllabus. I was cramming on Monday to start teaching on Tuesday, but I had a good time. The pay is crap, but I very much, and I wound up teaching initially, mostly an art appreciation class for a program they called Accelerate, where TCC took its concurrent enrollment classes out to public high schools. Students in Tulsa can take a class at TCC. Concurrent enrollment sometimes means they take it on campus. But in this case, particularly because not every student is mobile, we wound up…I wound up teaching at Tulsa Central, Hale, East Central, and then Webster and Edison. Those last two more than any other, repeated times. And it was great. I loved, I had the best and the brightest. For example, East Central is a pretty rough school. It looks like a prison, and it had high security when you walk in. But the kids I was working with were brilliant. And it was such a good experience. And then, again, Humanities I on campus was not bad. I liked that as well. That was at Metro Campus. It hasn't happened lately, but for a few years I would be randomly going around Tulsa, and somebody would say, hey, did you teach Humanities at TCC? I said, yeah. And mostly people said, I took your class. I loved your class. It made you feel really good. 24 �Dennis Neill: So, as an activist, what do you consider kind of your crown achievement? Would you say whether it's through the newspaper or your active involvement in organizations? What really gives you comfort about the view you took about being an activist in the community? Tom Neal: I think it's not any single thing, Dennis. I think it is a general pushing, expanding the envelope, pushing things forward, making it a little better than it was before. The process at OU that I worked on towards getting a nondiscrimination policy, we didn't get it, but somebody did after us. But I think the work that we did helped move us in that direction. Clearly, I think that the fact that we're sitting in this wonderful building today has its origins in the thinking that people like Nancy and Greg and... Dennis Neill: Okay. And you were talking a little bit about your activism and you feeling like it's not just one event, but you want to expand it a little bit more? Tom Neal: So, I think, I don't know whether we chopped this off or not, but I was saying that, here we are in this beautiful, wonderful building. And I think, again, back to the notion that maybe it's not any single thing that I accomplished, but being part of the process of moving us forward as a community, that, the origins of this building, to some degree, are in the building that Deborah and I signed the lease for over on Brookside. In the thinking, Nancy McDonald was very involved, Greg Gatewood…each of us working to the recognition that we need a physical place to anchor the community, particularly in a community that is kind of scattered, to all parts of the city. And I think I helped advance that. I think, maybe like before we started the interview, we were talking about our interaction with the Jewish community and maybe, helping people there to be more aware of, sometimes the intersection between LGBT issues and Jewish issues, particularly in terms of our shared history around, living through the Nazi regime. not identical experiences, obviously, but some overlap there. Part of that process…I know you can relate to this, one step forward and two steps back, or maybe it's two steps forward and one step back. When you and I first met, there were really hopes that the city of Tulsa was then, in 1980-something, going to add a non-discrimination policy. And I think you guys are really close. There was a little bit of a backlash, you know? Dennis Neill: But do you feel like there's been some backsliding over these recent years? And what would you attribute that to? And what would you tell the current generations? How can we move forward? But I'm assuming you might feel like we're backsliding in progress. What are your thoughts? Tom Neal: Well, yeah, I don't think we can take anything for granted. And I think again, as a student of history, if you look at Weimar, Germany, it was a good place for queer people in the 1920s, and then only to be followed by... I think, again, part of that shared experience or similar experience of the Jewish communities around the world and of LGBT communities is this kind of, we're always looking over our shoulders because, particularly with the current administration, could things turn south, could things go bad really quickly. I think I live with that as a little bit of a fear. I just read that the Texas 25 �Tech University system has now basically banned- it's destroyed- the women's studies, the LGBT studies, sexuality studies. You can't even write or talk about these issues. I have family who are alums, and so I put on my Facebook like, hmm, reposted, shared the story but then said: maybe we should call this fascist Tech, not Texas Tech, though Texas and fascism may be pretty good overlap these days. So, yes, are we backsliding? I think our fears are worse than the actuality. But could we backslide? I think that's real. What would I say to young people? Don't blow off your seniors completely. Some of us have some experience. You don't have to freaking, reinvent everything every time or assume that everybody who's you know older than you is an idiot and doesn't know anything, because sometimes that's how it feels. I was a little perturbed because recently this organization had a weekend seminar for rural organizing, I think, and I looked over it and it was kind of almost pro forma, by the book inclusive. We had one of these and one of these and one of these I mean in terms of racial and ethnic diversity and so forth, except for there was not a single old person in the mix. They were all Morgan's age and younger and I'm kind of like some of us might have something to contribute. Some of us have done some of this before, and I think you know again, maybe kind of one of my pet peeves- and we see it a fair amount in the, in the gay part of the LGBT community, is ageism. You know just, and- and I've been a little outspoken, calling people I say, that's kind of, that's kind of …So I think that would be kind of my, maybe the message, the answer to the question is: you know that inclusiveness is not just about, race and ethnicity or gender. You know that that many people have something to contribute. I don't know, probably if I keep talking, I'm going to say the same thing over in three different ways. Dennis Neill: Anything we haven't covered over your life to date and your reflections on what's been accomplished and what needs to be accomplished or any other comments you want to make. Tom Neal: Oh well, thank you for doing this, it's fun. It's kind of makes me remember some things that I hadn't really thought about for a while. You know I'm usually focused on work deadlines and Spanish exams and walking my dog. I'm planning my next trip because I really enjoy traveling. Dennis Neill: Where's that? Tom Neal: Next trips? This summer's trips, I think I'm going to go to Little Rock just for a long weekend, just because I've never really spent any time there. And there's the Clinton Library. Their art museum has been recently revamped, and I like to visit Episcopal Parishes when I travel, and this is going to sound so church nerdy, but they have Christ Church and the Cathedral, two different congregations within blocks of each other, and I can actually go to one service at 8 or 8:30, and the other one at 10:30, which is a lot of church. Dennis Neill: Both Episcopalian? 26 �Tom Neal: One's the Cathedral, one's just, I guess, the local church, but they're both historic because Little Rock, Arkansas is older than we are as a state. I'll probably go see my brother and go to the beach with my nephew that I traveled with in North Carolina. I'm kind of avoiding overseas travel because of you know all the unrest right now. But my nephew, with whom I travel a fair amount, he said, I want to get one last trip in August before, hopefully, I take a class at TU in the fall. And he said: well, what about Mexico City? I'm like I've been really wanting to go to Mexico City because I've never been, fits in with studying Spanish, amazing art and museums and history, and I like to mountain bike, and I even think there's mountain biking close to the city. So hopefully that'll be, that'll be that, and then next winter go skiing because that's my other thing. Dennis Neill: Tom, I really appreciate your time, your dedication to the community and everything that you've done for this organization and for the great history you've left us with the Tulsa Family News. Thank you very much. Tom Neal: Thank you, Dennis. 27 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Series] Oral Histories Project > Interviews Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br />Box 7, Folder 7 - Dr. Leisa Meyer Program<br />Box 7, Folder 8 - Interviewees Materials, Original Series 2003-2007<br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Tom Neal Interview Subject The topic of the resource Tom Neal Oral History Project Interview from April 30, 2026 Description An account of the resource In this in-depth interview, Tom Neal shares his life journey, from growing up in Oklahoma to becoming a community activist and publisher. He discusses his experiences with LGBTQ+ advocacy, the evolution of Tulsa's community spaces, and his reflections on social progress and challenges. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Tom Neal, Dennis Neill Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 30, 2026 activism AIDS/HIV Dennis Neill Dennis R. Neill Dennis R. Neill Equality Center Equality Center Gay Rights HIV/AIDs interview journalism Nancy and Joe McDonald Rainbow Library Nancy McDonald Rainbow Library OkEq Equality Center OKEQ Oral History Project oral history oral history interview Oral History Project oral history transcript Rainbow Library Tom Neal transcript Tulsa Family News video https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/dea5687994523c956c6878299c4cdbdd.pdf 1cd60c6a28dd7281d0d3dd2aa563452c PDF Text Text Tulsa is home to America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ 1 of 7 https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ CULTURE How a Tulsa TV anchor-turned-theater director became America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ by Haley Samsel June 23, 2026 Travis Guillory in his midtown Tulsa home drag room surrounded by his collection of gowns and other items for his works as Tracy La Louisianne. Tim Landes Have aCredit: question or a/ Tulsa tip? Flyer Text us. 7/9/2026, 3:48 PM �Tulsa is home to America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ 2 of 7 https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ The country’s reigning Miss Gay America — a title she sometimes playfully refers to as “the president of drag” — doesn’t live in a Los Angeles mansion or a New York City walkup. She calls midtown Tulsa home. Travis Guillory is the last person to predict he would be standing among the dozens of shimmering costumes, wigs and crowns required to transform into Tracy La Louisianne, who he describes as “Travis on steroids.” A former local TV anchor and current executive director of Theatre Tulsa, Guillory’s drag career began less than four years ago. Now he’s fielding requests from America’s Got Talent producers who watched Tracy earn the national title in January. “I’m not kidding when I say my life literally changed overnight,” Guillory said. Have a question or a tip? Text us. 7/9/2026, 3:48 PM �Tulsa is home to America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ 3 of 7 https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ Tracy La Louisianne was crowned Miss Gay America 2026 in January. Credit: Courtesy Tracy La Louisianne / Miss Gay America ‘Proved every single one of us wrong’ Guillory’s journey to winning the country’s longest-running and largest drag pageant wasn’t linear. Originally from southern Louisiana, he moved to Tulsa in 2017 to work for 2 News Oklahoma. The longtime performer and director quickly became involved in the local theater scene. That’s where Tracy was born. Guillory was cast as seasoned drag queen Miss Tracy Mills in World Stage Theatre Company’s 2021 production of “The Legend of Georgia McBride.” The role required him to take a “crash course” on drag performance and culture. The University of Tulsa’s HallowQueens show came calling soon after. First, though, Guillory needed a name. “I looked up Louisiana cocktails and I found ‘La Louisianne,’ which is basically a New Orleans version of a Manhattan, my favorite drink,” he said. “It just stuck.” Alongside a career shift to public relations, Guillory began performing one-woman cabarets with Oklahomans for Equality and expanding Tracy’s repertoire. Her persona is inspired by the largerthan-life female leads Guillory grew up watching in Broadway musicals. Think Mrs. Lovett from “Sweeney Todd” or Miss Hannigan from “Annie.” “I get to be what my younger self always wanted to be,” Guillory said. The act caught the attention of the then-reigning Miss Gay Oklahoma, who encouraged Guillory to condense the cabaret into a six-minute routine and enter a pageant. The contest follows a similar format to the Miss America competition, featuring an on-stage Q&A, judges interview, evening gown and talent showcase. Travis Guillory in his home drag room in his midtown Tulsa home. Have a question or a tip? Text us. Over time he began to see each element of the Credit: Tim Landes / Tulsa Flyer 7/9/2026, 3:48 PM �Tulsa is home to America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ 4 of 7 https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ score as a chance to do what he does best: communicate, think on his feet and embody Tracy’s theatrical personality. “You don’t have to fit the mold. You have to be the mold,” Guillory said. “It’s not like you’re trying to show up with what people expect Miss Gay America to be and look like. You show up the way you do your art at a very high level, and that’s Miss Gay America that year.” When he met Guillory in Tracy’s early days, Tulsan Ryan Bennett was already an established drag artist performing as Natalia Masters. Guillory was always talented, Bennett said, but a bit hesitant to lean “into his shtick” as a ball of energy on and off the stage. That’s no longer the case. “The one thing that I have seen him grow in is actually just his self confidence as an entertainer,” said Bennett, now one of Guillory’s best friends and collaborators. “There were so many people that told him that the direction that he was going wouldn’t get him very far, and he just proved every single one of us wrong in the best way possible.” The weight of the crown By the time she headed to Little Rock for the national competition in January, Tracy had already racked up honors like Miss Gay Oklahoma and Miss Gay Gulf Coast. In the days prior, Theatre Tulsa company director Mandy Gross and Guillory began discussing what it would look like if Guillory returned with the title. “I think Tracy knew that she was going to win, but Travis didn’t think that he was going to win,” Gross said. Many peers are in the pageant system for years before reaching the big stage. But Tracy pulled out all the stops — walking the stage in a gator costume holding a detached head and earning audience roars during her cabaret, which forced judges to pick their own adventure — and stole the show in her second national competition. Have a question or a tip? Text us. 7/9/2026, 3:48 PM �Tulsa is home to America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ 5 of 7 https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ Part of Tracy’s pitch was her ability to build a brand and lead the Miss Gay America organization through an ownership transition and moving its national competition to Atlanta. “I can put on a nice gown and a nice wig and do all of these things. I can figure out the aesthetic,” Guillory said. “But it’s more of what’s in somebody’s heart and what’s in somebody’s brain that actually makes them a successful Miss Gay America.” The crown can weigh heavily on the head that wears it. Bennett describes the duties as “grueling,” requiring weeks of travel to lead contestant orientations and judge briefings at competitions across the country in addition to performing and promoting gigs. Many winners quit their day jobs to complete their reigns. Not Guillory. He and Gross have worked together to ensure he can still give his energy to Theatre Tulsa, which he took over in summer 2024, and keep shows running smoothly. “You know how people are left-brained or right-brained? He’s got both,” Gross said. “He is really great at the creative stuff, and really great at scheduling and being organized and the stuff that super creative people usually aren’t. I don’t know where he gets that from, and I don’t know where he gets all the energy to do it.” Bennett has watched Guillory weather the highs and lows that come with pursuing a burgeoning drag career and keeping up with responsibilities at home. He has a community of supporters, including his partner and fellow drag performer Kallaya, who understand the pressure. Have a question or a tip? Text us. It also comes down to feeling the emotions in the moment and not letting them overtake you, Bennett said. When Guillory needs to cry or scream, he lets it out. 7/9/2026, 3:48 PM �Tulsa is home to America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ 6 of 7 https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ “He’s a superstar in that,” Bennett said. “He knows when it is appropriate to let loose and be vulnerable, and he knows when it’s time to put your big girl panties on and be professional, be the administrator and do the job of being Miss Gay America.” Have a question or a tip? Text us. 7/9/2026, 3:48 PM �Tulsa is home to America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ 7 of 7 https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ ‘We just want to exist’ Five months after returning from Little Rock, Guillory is still navigating his new reality. He’s embracing the flood of new opportunities — potential residency in Puerto Vallarta, anyone? — while still appreciating what Tulsa has to offer as an affordable home base for regular gigs in Arkansas and Missouri. He’s passionate about growing the city’s arts scene and says he’s never had a reason to leave. “I’ve lived three lifetimes in Tulsa and I’m on my fourth one now,” Guillory said. He’s not sure where life will take him by the time his reign ends in January. For now, he’s focused on a full calendar of gigs and the mission in front of him: representing Oklahoma on the national stage and serving as a beacon of hope for those feeling targeted by anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric. “We just want to exist,” Guillory said. “When people see Miss Gay America, they need to see somebody who’s just existing to the f–king fullest.” News decisions at the Tulsa Flyer are made independently of our board members and financial supporters. Read more about our editorial independence policy here. Have a question or a tip? Text us. 7/9/2026, 3:48 PM � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Collection] Oklahoma LGBT+ History Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br /><br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Travis Guillory Tulsa Flyer Article Subject The topic of the resource How a Tulsa TV anchor-turned-theater director became America’s reigning ‘president of drag’ Description An account of the resource 1 article written by Haley Samsel from Tulsa Flyer regarding Travis Guillory's winning of the Miss Gay America title as Tracy La Louisianne. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Haley Samsel Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived https://tulsaflyer.org/2026/06/23/culture/post/president-of-drag/ Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Tulsa Flyer Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 23, 2026 https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/e0d9822a3b0c3fe642a7bd1370cfd359.mp4 23c5fb4ac876f8aa1f3cd6c4f2150900 https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/bf801acb870eabb3456af5bad0e8a015.pdf 60b339d8fd9b78d08a569347020151b2 PDF Text Text Oklahomans for Equality About the NAMES Project AIDS Memorial Quilt with Val Bode and Doug Hartson Interview Conducted by Dennis Neill and Toby Jenkins Date: February 12, 2026 Edited By: Dennis Neill using Riverside Studio AI, March 28th, 2026 Restrictions: N/A Oklahomans for Equality History Project 621 E. 4th Street Tulsa, OK. 74120 918.743.4297 historyproject@okeq.org 1 �About the Names Project: The NAMES Project AIDS Memorial Quilt, conceived in 1985 by activist Cleve Jones in San Francisco, is a massive community art project honoring those lost to the HIV/AIDS epidemic. Officially founded in 1987, it features over 50,000 handmade panels, serving as a powerful memorial and educational tool against stigma. Key Historical Moments:  1985 Concept: During a candlelight march for Harvey Milk, Cleve Jones learned over 1,000 San Franciscans had died of AIDS. He had marchers write names on placards and tape them to the Federal Building, creating a patchwork look.  1987 Formation: The NAMES Project Foundation was established to create a lasting, traveling memorial, as many victims had no funerals.  1987 Debut: The Quilt was first displayed on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., during the National March on Washington for Lesbian and Gay Rights, featuring 1,920 panels.  1988 Tour: A 20-city national tour added thousands of new panels, highlighting the nationwide impact of the epidemic.  Growth and Legacy: By 2012, it was too large to be displayed in one place, with over 48,000 panels.  2019 Homecoming: The Quilt was moved from Atlanta back to San Francisco to be managed by the National AIDS Memorial, ensuring its preservation. The Quilt has served as a critical tool in fighting the stigma, ignorance, and bigotry surrounding the AIDS epidemic. Tulsa Involvement: With the leadership of Jack Francis, Val Bode, Doug Hartson and other volunteers, portions of the Names Project Quilts were displayed on four occasions. For their excellent organization and community outreach, the National Names Project awarded the Tulsa Names Project the Chapter of the Year in 1995. The Dennis R. Neill Equality Center was one of the few centers in the country to be designated as a permanent location for portions of the Quilt. However, in 2018, the Names Project requested all panels be returned to San Francisco. Hundreds of people came to the Equality Center for a final farewell. Tulsa was able to make large silk screen copies of the panels for permanent display in the Center before the Quilts were returned. 2 �Ginnie Graham with the Tulsa World wrote an article on November 28, 2018 about the farewell. Below is an extract from the article: In 1990, about 800 of the panels came to the Maxwell Convention Center, where at least 50 new ones were added. “This is not a screaming protest. It is a beautiful, gentle way to show the enormity of the problem,” Tulsa display chairman Jack Francis told the Tulsa World. In 1993, the AIDS Quilt returned with about 1,000 panels, and about 60 more from northeastern Oklahoma were added. Those included a tranquil scene of flowers with a yellow sun for Zac Sweeney, who died at age 29; a theatrical mask and ballet shoes against a fuchsia background covered in sequins for 31-year-old Chris Monnet, who choreographed two Miss Oklahoma pageants; and a bouquet of balloons made of felt for David Wayne Robinson. In 1995, the Tulsa Fairgrounds Pavilion hosted enough panels to fill the lengths of two football fields. Among new Quilt panels was one for 32-year-old Wesley Townsley. A gold hook in a picture of a large fishing rod was made of a purse chain from his grandmother, who died six months before he did. ____________________________________________________ 3 �On February 12, 2026, Dennis Neill and Toby Jenkins interviewed Val Bode and Doug Hartson about their involvement with the Names Project AIDS Memorial Quilt. The interview took place in the Nancy and Joe McDonald Library located in the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Keywords NAMES Project, AIDS Memorial Quilt, Tulsa community, Doug Hartson, Val Bode, personal stories, community support, fundraising, legacy, healing Summary This conversation explores the profound impact of the NAMES Project and the AIDS Memorial Quilt on the Tulsa community, featuring personal stories from Doug Hartson and Val Bode. They share their experiences of loss, healing, and community support while discussing the importance of remembrance and advocacy in the face of the AIDS epidemic. The dialogue highlights the Quilt's role in changing perceptions, fostering understanding, and providing a therapeutic outlet for those affected by the disease. The speakers also reflect on the challenges faced in promoting the project and the legacy it leaves for future generations. Takeaways  Doug Hartson became involved with the NAMES Project to connect with the community.  Val Bode's brother's illness with AIDS motivated her to create a Quilt panel.  The Quilt serves as a therapeutic outlet for remembering lost friends.  Community support was crucial for the success of the NAMES Project in Tulsa.  The Quilt changed people's perspectives on AIDS and its victims.  Personal stories shared through the Quilt fostered healing and understanding.  Fundraising events like 'Feast with Friends' were vital for sustaining the project.  The NAMES Project had a significant national impact, culminating in displays on the National Mall.  Challenges included societal stigma and resistance to discussing AIDS openly.  The legacy of the NAMES Project continues through education and remembrance efforts. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the NAMES Project and Personal Stories 02:52 Doug Hartson's Journey with the NAMES Project 4 �05:59 Val Bode's Personal Connection to the Quilt 09:02 The Impact of the Quilt on the Community 12:14 Family Stories and Healing Through the Quilt 15:02 Remembering Friends Lost to AIDS 17:58 The Role of Community in the NAMES Project 20:55 Fundraising and Community Engagement 24:05 The Importance of Local Support 26:54 The Final Display of the Quilt in 1996 30:14 Reflections on the NAMES Project's Legacy 39:59 The Emotional Impact of the Quilt 42:31 Community Support and Resistance 45:35 Fundraising and Financial Support 50:51 Counseling and Emotional Support 52:13 Personal Stories and Connections 53:59 Panel Submission and Documentation 57:46 Jack's Legacy and Personal Connections 01:06:01 The Quilt as a Tool for Advocacy 01:12:03 Medical Advances and Their Impact 01:15:20 Preserving the Legacy of the Quilt Dennis Neill: My name is Dennis Neill, and we also have present Amanda Thompson, the archivist, and Toby Jenkins, and we'll have the opportunity to interview Doug Hartson and Val Bode. And the purpose of this interview, on February, the 12th, 2026, in the Nancy and Joe McDonald Library at the Equality Center, is to review the history of the NAMES Project as it impacted the Tulsa community and the great involvement of both Doug and Val in the Tulsa chapter, as well as their work with the national organization. Doug, would you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your first engagement, one with the organization of OHR and TOHR and then the NAMES Project? Doug Hartson: Well, I'm Doug Hartson and I got involved, gosh, near the very, very beginning, when we were meeting in homes, and then we finally moved our monthly meetings to the Aronson auditorium in the downtown library, Central Library, and I basically became involved because I wasn't necessarily the little barfly that went out 5 �every night or every weekend, so I wanted more of a communal contact with others and wanted to really get involved in the community and helping in any way I could to have another outlet in lieu of going to some of the clubs. And gosh, that was in 80,, what was that? 80?, 81?, anyway. So and then, having done that for quite a while and unfortunately starting to lose friends to AIDS, I got in touch, I guess, with Val or with the organization and became very involved in the NAMES Project AIDS Memorial Quilt chapter here and was involved in several displays in Tulsa and then the March in Washington in 93, and then also the final full display in DC in 1996, October of 96. I made quite a few panels for friends that I had lost and just felt the need to let them not be forgotten, and it was also therapeutic and healing to do a Quilt and remember special little things that you put on the Quilt that reminded you of them and our friendship. Dennis Neill: Thank you, Doug. Val, could you kind of introduce your work initially with the NAMES Project and how long that carried on for you? Val Bode: I'm Val Bode and I first became involved with the Quilt when my brother was ill with AIDS. It was very early in the epidemic in 1988, and we had moved him from Houston back to my parents' home in Broken Arrow so the family could care for him and one day we received a phone call. We had many phone calls from friends of his in Houston checking on him, but we received a phone call from a friend, and I answered the phone and visited with the friend who said to me I plan to make a Quilt panel for Kenny when he's gone. And I said I'm not sure I know what that is. And he described the NAMES Project Quilt to me and that stayed with me in the following weeks and after my brother died I wanted to know more about it. And this was back in the days before we had the internet and all of our information at our fingertips. And, as luck would have it, there appeared in the newspaper, the Tulsa World, an article about the NAMES project Quilt coming to Oklahoma City and there was a phone number to call for information. I called the number and received this man with a deep, deep, resonant voice who explained to me all about the Quilt and its visit to Oklahoma City. And by the time I finished the phone call I had volunteered to help with the display and my sister and I both volunteered at that display in Oklahoma City. And that was in early- I think it was early 89, and Kenny had been gone less than a year. And we went to see the Quilt and, sure enough, the panel that his friend in Houston had made was within the sections that were on display, and while it was beautiful, I felt a great sadness because I hadn't taken part in making it, but by the end of the day, I learned that many people had more than one panel and that it was perfectly fine for myself and or my family to make a panel for him, and so we- my sister and my parents- left that day planning to do so and we made his panel. We spelled out his name in Legos. I don't know if that shows very well Dennis, but he was somewhat of a Lego maniac and that was one of the things that he enjoyed in his last months was drawing a building on paper and then reproducing it in Legos, and so we felt like we had to include the Legos, and I was, I was telling earlier about my dad's reluctance to participate in making the Quilt. He thought that was something that mom and the girls should do, and when we talked about the Legos, we were 6 �trying to figure out how to get them on the fabric in a way that they would stay, and we were at my parents’ house. My dad was watching a baseball game, and I took some Legos to him and I said: ”Daddy, we want to spell out Kenny's name in Legos, but we have to sew them on the Quilt. Can you make holes in these so we can sew them on like buttons?”. And he said, “Well, let me see what I can do”. And he took them into the garage. My dad took them into the garage and he came back and each Lego had eight holes around the side and from that moment on he was totally involved with the making of the panel. We sent the panel to Washington, to actually to San Francisco, where the Quilt was at home at the time, and from that day on I was involved with the Quilt. Jack Francis was determined that we have a chapter in Tulsa and so he and I really went forward with that plan and tried to get a chapter in Tulsa, which we did successfully, I think in 90, about 90, and it took a lot of hard work but we did it and we subsequently had, I believe, four major displays in Tulsa, countless small displays, outreach efforts in Tulsa and the surrounding area. Many, many of our panels went to rural areas and I have felt over these years what important work that we did with the Quilt. We saw people who became humbled and changed when they visited the Quilt. We showed the Quilt either in the Maxwell Convention Center, the Pavilion at the fairgrounds… Doug Hartson: I displayed it at Boston Avenue United Methodist Church and other churches through other organizations. It got out there and it did change people's perspective; that it wasn't just a quote-unquote gay disease, that somebody knew someone, that six degrees of separation that had died from AIDS as the pandemic grew, unfortunately, and we lost more friends. But it was also important to get the Quilt out so people understood what it meant and the information behind it and that we just never would forget our friends. Dennis Neill: Speaking of friends and family, Val, could you explain a little bit more about your brother, and I believe his last name was Valentine. Val Bode: Correct. Dennis Neill: Could you share a little bit more about your brother? Val Bode: Kenny Valentine was a forever student. He was, he was eager to learn and he was a student at Oklahoma State for many number of years and I, in recollection, I don't think he ever actually got a degree, but he was interested in so many things: languages, foreign languages. He learned Biblical Hebrew, he learned Russian, he learned German, French. He just had a zeal for learning things. And he had an innate talent drawing and creating things out of Legos. I have in my bedroom a picture that was drawn on a piece of typing paper with a pencil when my daughter, who is now 60, was a little bit of a girl, probably five years old, went to Uncle Kenny and said, Uncle Kenny, will you draw me a lighthouse? And he drew this lovely picture of a lighthouse and the rocky shore and the turbulent water coming in. And I've tried to preserve that. We have a lot of memories of him. He had a great sense of humor and was reluctant to move to Tulsa when he was ill, but he needed help and we pretty much insisted that he come to Tulsa. My parents were alive at the time and in good health. So I remember saying to him, Kenny, I 7 �think you should live with me. And he said, no, that's not a good idea because I'm going to get worse and you're going to have to still go to work and at least Mom and Dad are at home. And I said to him, but you know what's going to happen. Mom's going to think if she feeds you enough homemade soup, you're going to get well. Enough chicken noodle soup and keeps you out of drafts. And he said, yeah, I know, but I'll deal with it. And so we brought him to Tulsa, to my parents' home, and my sister and I were there as much as we could. And he actually died in a hospital. And that was tough. I was with him and I didn't have any experience with death. I didn't know what I know now. Having had both my parents die at home with hospice, I wish I had had that experience with him. But at least I was there. Val Bode in front of the panel her family made following her brother’s death from AIDS. Dennis Neill: Did you have any support like Shanti or any of the other organizations? Val Bode: We really didn't. My parents were pretty closed in about the AIDS issue, as was not unusual, especially for that generation at that time. And so we pretty much did it on our own with some help from their minister and family friends. And we had people dropping in, bringing food, as they do, and being supportive. It was a very, very difficult time for all of us. We knew so little about AIDS that I had very young grandchildren at the time, whom my brother just adored. And I was frightened for them to be with him in a closed situation. Because we didn't know. We didn't know. But I do remember, it was 8 �Christmas time, and my granddaughter, Christina, who was, I think, three at the time, helped decorate the tree. And Kenny wanted to use some of his ornaments that he had. And one of the things he had were strands of pearls, and feet and feet and feet of them. And so they got all those out, and she helped. And we got those all on the tree. And she came to me and she said, “Nan, look, Uncle Kenny got necklaces on his tree”. And so we had good times with him, too. My dad always took photographs with a 35mm camera and had countless number of slides. Yeah, your folks do, right? And so a couple of times we got out the screen and the projector and showed different family vacations and celebrations and so on. There was a picture one year of me and Kenny, and it must have been Easter because we were both dressed to the nines. And he said, “well, that must have been a good year. Those look like store-bought clothes”. So his sense of humor was still there till the very end. We treasure the time that we were able to spend with him. Dennis Neill: Val, you're sharing is so important because it really brings the personal aspect of your family, the impact on your family, and then your motivation to be with the NAMES Project. And so, Doug, is there somebody that you were really close to that really impacted you that's a part of the NAMES Project? Doug Hartson: There were several friends, but John Thomeyer, he was on the TOHR board with me for several years. And unfortunately, he passed away on Christmas, alone. Dennis Neill: You know what year? Doug Hartson: Ninety, I'll have to go back and look at his panel because John Gartland and I… Dennis Neill: You said he was alone, he died at home alone? Doug Harston: From my understanding, his mom, he was supposed to go over to his mom's for the day, for the holiday. And when he didn't show, she went over and found him. And so that was my first panel. And just the camaraderie stemming from TOHR and being on the board and being amongst friends and being able to be yourself and then having to deal with this, which was a totally different aspect than what any of us expected. And we didn't know a lot about it. Val Bode: No, we didn't. Doug Hartson: Which made it even more challenging. There were several, I don't want to go over the long list, but I just felt the need to get involved because it was a way of keeping them remembered. And again, it was therapy for me to do it. Dennis Neill: And as I recall, Doug, on John's panel, it was John on a stage in the spotlight. As I recall, do you know? Doug Hartson: The Empty Stage, yeah. We entitled it The Empty Stage because he was very involved in theater here in Tulsa. And we did the TOHR Follies every year. I was in it a couple of times. But anyway, John was always in it. And so we just felt 9 �that that was very apropos since he was so active in the community in that regard. In fact, his name was Heidi Ho. Here comes Heidi Ho. Toby Jenkins: For our viewers, I want to make sure they understand. Val, how old was your brother Kenny when he died? Val Bode: He was 37. Toby Jenkins: So a young man. Val Bode: A young man. Toby Jenkins: Doug, do you remember the ages of these folks? Doug Hartson: They were all in their mid-30s. Toby Jenkins: Thank you. Val Bode: Very, very early and way too young to be lost. I will share with you the impact that making Kenny's Panel had on my family. My parents were very reluctant to talk about AIDS, to even admit that their son had died of AIDS. And I understood that. That was typical of that generation in those times. And when we were making the Panel, as I mentioned, prior to Kenny's death, there was involvement from my parents' minister at the church they attended in Sapulpa. And he knew that we were involved, that we were making this Quilt Panel, and was quite interested to learn more about it. And he approached my sister and asked her if we would share the Quilt Panel with the congregation when it was complete. And my parents said no, they did not want to do that. And so my sister Jayne and I understood, and we said, okay, that's all right. But as time got close to the completion of the Panel, they seemed to change their minds. My mother came to me and she said, “if you took the Panel to church and you spoke, would you tell people that babies die of this disease too?” And I said, yes, of course I will. And so they agreed for us to do this. And so we had the Quilt Panel after it was completed on a table at the back of the congregation and at the back of the sanctuary. And my sister and I both spoke. We told about Kenny's illness. We told about the family's involvement. We spoke about the NAMES Project and about the making of the Panel. The plan was, at the benediction, for the family to go to the back and be at the table where the Quilt was, which we did. And as soon as the amens were said, people came to my parents and surrounded them with love and acceptance and acknowledgement and comfort. And I, today, feel like that changed them forever. It told them that this was not a death to be fearful of, that it was acknowledged how much we loved Kenny and how much we wanted to remember him and speak his name. And I think that that activity, that whole arrangement, brought them, all of us, more healing than we could have gotten any other way, any other way. And from that day on, they were involved with our displays that we had after we formed a chapter, our local displays, and they always volunteered, dressed in all whites, and did whatever 10 �we needed them to do. So that became an incredible healing tool for us, and we saw it again with so many people as we worked with the Quilt. Dennis Neill: So Val, when you talk about in all white, is this an example of what you all wore? Val Bode: Well, this was not official. Doug Hartson: Pretty close, though. Val Bode: Well, we all wore mini buttons that we collected over the years at different NAMES Project displays. I found this vest, gosh, this was before Amazon, I found it somewhere in a store and had it imprinted with Tulsa area chapter and just put my buttons on it and wore it over. Everybody wore white. The volunteers at the Quilt were requested to wear all white, and that included NAMES Project t-shirts, or just plain white. And that was so that we could be readily, oh, thank you, Doug, thank you, Doug, that was so that we could be readily identifiable to visitors. Dennis Neill: So was that part of the national program? Val Bode: That was. That was the national NAMES Project organization in organizing local displays and regional exhibitions. That was one of the requests that they made, was to see that all volunteers knew they should wear all white, if at all possible. And so it was a good way for us to stand out, to be ready to answer questions. Toby Jenkins: So I noticed on the vest that you had the buttons. So you would have bought those in advance, and I suppose there was a fee for you to purchase the button, and then did that fund that chapter's project? Val Bode: Absolutely, yes, funded either the chapter's project or the national organization. And so all the merchandise sales, which there was a lot of merchandise available, you know, t-shirts, sweatshirts, buttons, bracelets, all kinds of things. And so all of that income from that merchandise went to either local organizations or the national NAMES Project. Dennis Neill: That's very helpful. So let's spend a little more time talking about the local community and the support for the NAMES Project, and then we'd like to visit a little bit about your national involvement and your ideas about the national involvement. So when I think about the NAMES Project in Tulsa, I think of the two of you plus Jack Francis. I imagine there were others that were involved, but can you... Doug Hartson: It's just Jack. Dennis Neill: Can you describe a little bit about Jack's role, why he got involved, was he the main cheerleader for a while? Doug Hartson: He definitely was, but Val's going to be better at talking about Jack than I am. Val Bode: Jack and I spoke together after the Oklahoma City display and were determined that we would start a chapter in Tulsa. And that was an arduous process. We had a lot of work ahead of us, but we had great support. 11 �We were very involved with other organizations here in town- TOHR, Shanti- Help Me Doug, RAIN- many other organizations- and not only support for forming our chapter and putting on these displays, but also becoming involved as volunteers at displays. I mean, every single AIDS HIV organization in town fed volunteers to us because it took a lot of people to put on a major display, as we did four times, and so we had hundreds of volunteers literally. I mean, you had to unload the Quilt from the truck at the beginning and then you had to unpack everything, organize it the way it had to be organized in order for the list of names to match with the panels, and it was a big undertaking. It also cost a lot of money, and we were able to raise enough money through our Feast With Friends, which was our major fundraiser Feast With Friends, October 2000. Oh, my goodness, 26 years ago, Feast With Friends was a great time. Dennis Neill: Was that a local concept or was that a national concept? Val Bode: That was a local concept that we- oh, it was a, I think it was a group effort. We just got together as a board, including Jack and Doug and a number of other people, and we just came up with names. Doug Hartson: It was always and it still is, and it's from any organization that they do benefit dinner and auction. You do the dinner and then you have items live and silent auction, and we wanted to do something a little different, I think. We did the dinner part, but it wasn't in some hotel ballroom. That was the dessert finale and the awards, the presentations, but we encouraged friends to do dinner parties and pick a theme, and that turned out to be a lot of fun because there were some really cute, if you will, themes that came up. One of the ones that I hosted was called “Meals on Heels” and it was a hit. Val Bode: It was a hit, great fun. Doug Hartson: We raised the most money, I must say. I'm proud of that. So yeah, but no, it was a hoot. We did a… I had a roast pig. We did a big pig with the apple in its mouth in my backyard and everybody was to wear heels and coming through the gate we had a big, giant red pump and it turned out to be quite the talk of the town and I remember Rob Hill, who was blind, came with the ends of a loaf of bread taped to... heels. So yeah, so he won the most original at our party. But anyway, no, it was that. And then, oh gosh, I'm trying to think of some of the other names of the parties. Val Bode: Well, that same year- was it Betty and Peggy, or no, it was Kay and Maryhad a party “Women in Comfortable Shoes”. But the way it worked was individuals would host parties in their home in exchange for a donation to the Names Project and so, and it could be anything from hot dogs and beer to a five-course sit-down dinner, and then we all gathered at a location that we had obtained to eat dessert, and the desserts were all donated. We had teams of people who spent the day acquiring, picking up donations, and that was great fun too, because there were a couple of incidents where, you know, cobbler got spilled in the back of someone's truck or whatever. But it was a lot of fun and it was very successful. And the Names Project nationally recognized that when they awarded us Chapter of the Year in 95, that they, I believe, expressed that we 12 �created a very original and successful fundraiser which was part of the reason we won that award. Dennis Neill: You know, that brings up such an interesting thought in that the Names Project, being a national organization, brought down to the local community. It impacts so many aspects, right the grieving process, the messaging process but you also have to have a camaraderie to raise the funds that you're talking about and it can be a fun event even though we're recognizing something that's extremely serious. So talk about the emotion between grieving, messaging, having a community that supports it. It all kind of has to work together, doesn't it? Val Bode: It does. Doug Hartson: Yeah. Val Bode: And it absolutely did. Doug Hartson: It did. And again, knowledge is power and I think a lot of people became interested and were wanting to know more about the Quilt because whether they knew someone who had died from AIDS or not, it's a way for them to realize that we are all in this together and everyone is affected one way or another. And when we did the Feast with Friends dinner parties and then we had the dessert and then we actually showed the Quilt four times here, more and more people came out and again I think they appreciated the fact that it was a healing process for everyone, not just those of us who had made a Quilt, but for those in the community who wanted to know more about it and then have a deeper understanding of what it really was meant for. Dennis Neill: Did you ever know anybody that actually helped create their own Quilt? Val Bode: You know, I had heard of some people who had done that through connections with people from the national organization. I did not know anyone personally who did that. Doug Hartson: I didn't either, personally, but no. And I think it would probably be very therapeutic for them, knowing, because then they get to put their own, obviously, very personal spin on it, on the things that they wanted to be remembered by. Like Kenny with his Legos. Val Bode: Yeah, you know, that was important that we include those. Doug Hartson: So, but the national, the final display of the entire Quilt in 96, we were the central region and that was a tremendous undertaking and a lot of work, but so worth it, because that was the first year that the president acknowledged the Quilt. They actually came down and toured the Quilt. Toby Jenkins: And what year was that and who was the president, the sitting president? Doug Hartson: That was October of 96, yeah, October 11th through the 13th of 96, and, oh, sorry, the one thing I, one of the things I saved from the... 13 �Val Bode: This was one of my favorite slogans that came out of national, “Not all battles are fought with a sword”. Toby Jenkins: And so was this, Val, was this the very first time it was on display on the National Mall? Val Bode: No, this was the last time it was on display on the National Mall. The first time was 89, and I was, I was there for that display. I was there for the subsequent displays. Toby Jenkins: And in 89, who would have been president at the White House? Val Bode: Reagan, I think. Doug Hartson: Yeah. Val Bode: Was it Reagan? Doug Hartson: And he did not... Val Bode: Did not, did not... Dennis Neill: Bush. Yeah, it was Bush. Was it Bush? Yeah. Val Bode: Okay. Dennis Neill: But I noticed in the 1996, the final showing, that the honorary co-chairs were the president and Mrs. Clinton. Val Bode: Yes. Dennis Neill: I noticed Barney Frank was on there as well, and several other wellknown individuals. And I'm thinking, Doug, was that the year that you were the captain of Column 71? Doug Hartson: Yes. Val Bode: Yes. Dennis Neill: Tell us a little bit about that. Doug Hartson: Well, that was, first, very rewarding. But we were in charge, and again, it takes a village, and it takes a good team, from organizing the teams that were going to unfold the panels, who were going to read names. And in case of inclement weather, I missed the Senate dinner that night because it was going to rain, and we didn't have enough volunteers that were still around that, to get the Quilt back under cover. So, but it was… Challenging, to say the least, but it was something I'll never forget. Val Bode: It was a tremendous success. That was the year that the previous display had a lot of problems that came about, and the NAMES Project organization, national organization, as a result of those problems, recognized that their expertise did not lay with displays, that it was the chapters who were so good at displays 14 �because we did these major displays in our communities- not just us but probably a hundred other chapters- and so they decided that that knowledge should be put to use, that experience, and so the Quilt was divided into segments, virtual segments, where each chapter would have the responsibility for that segment, and as a result, I think it was a tremendously successful display. I really do. Doug Hartson: Not just because it was the last one, unfortunately, but it really went very well. Val Bode: It really did, from the steps of the Capitol Building to the pool of the Washington Monument, and when you see that area in its entirety and with the Quilt laid out, it's an incredibly impressive site. Toby Jenkins: Val and Doug, I want to ask you about a question that may just be urban legend, but it's kind of what I've heard for decades and I'm not real sure if it was Reagan or Bush, but I think when the first display Air Force One, not Air Force One- the helicopter had left the White House and it flew over and it hovered over it to take all of it in for the first time, and that that whoever was in the White House at that time, that began to be a door where there began to be a more national discussion about funding. Is that an urban legend? Val Bode: I saw the helicopter go over and I never saw it hover, did you? Doug Hartson: No. Val Bode: No, the helicopter flew over… Doug Hartson: And left the White House because they didn't want to. Val Bode: They didn't, yeah, they left the White House. Doug Hartson: In my opinion. Val Bode: - Well, in pretty much our opinion, they did not want to visit the Quilt, and I remember clearly we yelled shame, shame. Toby Jenkins: I think that was Reagan, Val Bode: I think it was Reagan. I remember it was Reagan. Toby Jenkins: You said the first display was in 80…. Val Bode: 89. Toby Jenkins: Yes, and I did check and it was Reagan. Val Bode: Yeah, I remember that clearly and I did see the helicopter, but I did not see it hover. Dennis Neill: So, with regard to the panels, do you recall, Doug, at that final display on the mall, how many Quilts were displayed for the final? Doug Hartson: How many individual panels? Val Bode: Oh, my goodness, I don't remember. 15 �Dennis Neill: Or do you know how many you were responsible for as the captain. Doug Hartson: Oh, I don't even remember that but a lot. I don't remember that either. Val Bode: It was kind of numbered, I think, by 12 by 12s, wasn't it 12 by 12s? Doug Hartson: Yeah, and it wasn't just the individual panels, because all the panels were made into a 12 by 12 section which is unfolded. So, as far as the individual panels- and I don't even know how many 12 by 12s there were- yeah… Dennis Neill: t was an impressive, incredible number. Val Bode: Absolutely, absolutely. Dennis Neill: And how about the local displays? How many would be the maximum that you think were on display in Tulsa? Doug Hartson: Well, the first one that we had at the Pavilion, we had it on the inner circle of the floor- oh, it's oval shape- and then the outer upper and then all on the floor. Val Bode: We hung panels around the bleachers. and I don't remember a number. It was a lot, it was a lot. And one of the things that I failed to mention about our local displays is we were, it was important to us to include school kids, and so the first day of the Quilt being open to the public was actually open to public schools, and we arranged with the schools in advance so they would have transportation and they brought high school kids- I think it was primarily high school kids- in by the bus load to see the Quilt and that was a really great success. One of my favorite stories came from Sharon Thoele and she spoke of a young man entering the display, and we were at the Pavilion that year- I don't know what year it was, but she spoke of him entering the Pavilion wearing his cowboy hat and his cowboy boots and strutting into the vicinity of the Quilt and she thought, oh, this is gonna be interesting. And she kind of kept an eye on him and as he walked around, she watched him and eventually she saw him on one knee with his hat in his hand and tears coming from his eyes as he viewed a panel. And that to me says it all about what the Quilt was about. It brought so much healing to people. I helped a number of people make panels for their loved ones. We had sewing bees. We had individual meetings to help people get started. Doug Hartson: Because they wanted to make one, they just didn't know the first thing to do. Val Bode: Didn't know what to do, how to get started. You know, the panel, individual panels are three feet by six feet and that's a sizable piece of fabric to work with. And so you have to kind of use your imagination to decide what, how you're going to fill that space. And I think what we did or what I did with people I met with was I arranged to meet with them in person and show them pictures and explain what these panels meant, even in regard to my own for Kenny, so that they would get an idea of how to express their love or their remembrance of the individual. And we had a lot of new panels come in at every display. They ultimately went to the National to be sewn into sections and are still there today. 16 �Toby Jenkins: So the question for our viewers earlier was how many Quilts were a part of the display in 1996 on the National Mall in Washington, DC? And I've looked this up, 42,000 individual Quilts. Val Bode: Thank you, Toby. Yes, 42,000. And so, and you think of that as such a tremendous number that's represented there, yet it was only a fraction of those who died, a small fraction. Dennis Neill: So you mentioned how emotional the experience could be for many people, and I'm sure there's many stories you could share about that. How about, and everything I've seen, the media coverage was very good in the Tulsa community. How about any pushback? Did you come up with any resistance or people that saying that we need to quit recognizing this AIDS situation? Doug Hartson: Personally, I didn't. It was quite the opposite. I had people from other organizations I was involved in at the time, not just TOHR, but my church, and they, like I said, knowledge is power. They really, I spoke in Sunday school classes about it, I took panels, and they were very open to learning more about the Quilt. So I personally never had any bad situations come up from it, fortunately. Dennis Neill: And I noticed at the National, lots of corporate sponsors, and we had a lot of corporate sponsors locally, as I recall. Doug Hartson: Yes. Val Bode: Yes we did. I'm having trouble remembering, but we did. And even unrecognized sponsors, for instance, at the time I worked for Oneok, and at the time I was involved with the displays, my management was very supportive of anything that I needed to do during the day involving the Quilt. And in addition to that, we had a wonderful graphic arts department that did just everything, and they would make my, you know, 500 copies of something and punch holes in it, or whatever I needed, publish our newsletter for us. They just did a tremendous amount that we would otherwise have had to pay for, and that was incredibly helpful. I don't remember any pushback from the public. We had tremendous support. It seemed everywhere we turned, you know, not everybody was able to help financially, but everyone seemed supportive. Dennis Neill: And you recall in 1996 there was also evidently a musical that was put on that was a benefit for the Names Project. Do you all recall that, and who helped pull that event together? Val Bode: Oh, who did that? Friends of Broken Arrow Community Playhouse, okay. Yeah, and I don't, I just don't remember a lot about that. Doug Hartson: I don't either, unfortunately. Dennis Neill: And other than Feast for Friends, do you recall any other kind of grassroots fundraisers that helped you all? Val Bode: Oh, hmm. Doug Hartson: That was, again, our main fundraiser of the year I don't recall any other... 17 �Toby Jenkins: So, I have two questions. Val Bode: Sure. Toby Jenkins: So, you would have been a part of the organizing group, maybe you know the answer to this. I know you've talked about it was on display at the Maxwell Convention Center, which today is Arvest, the Arvest Convention Civic Center, and it was on display at the fairgrounds at the Pavilion. Did your chapter have to pay a rental fee? No public dollars were used for that, so you didn't... Val Bode: We did pay a rental fee. That all came out of our fundraising efforts, yes. Toby Jenkins: Second question, do you have a guess? Like, were there 5,000 people that came through and viewed it? Weren't there 10,000? Do you remember? Val Bode: Yeah, we used to have numbers. Doug Hartson: We used to have the clicker at the door and keep track of how many did come. Val Bode: I cannot remember numbers. Doug Hartson: It was thousands, though. Val Bode: Yes, it was... Toby Jenkins So, this part of it, I remember it would have been in the early... What was the last time it was at the convention center? Val Bode: It would have been... Doug Hartson: Ninety... Val Bode: Ninety-six... Toby Jenkins: No, this would have been later. Dennis Neill: So, there was one in 1996. Val Bode: 1997,... yeah. I think it was 97, yeah. Toby Jenkins: So, I can remember when it was at the Maxwell Convention Center. I was recently out, and I had my children on the weekends, and I asked their mother if it would be all right if I took them to that, and they were both pre-adolescent, or I think my son was already 12 or 13. And I can remember this. We had to stand in line to get in the building for about 40 minutes. I mean, there was a long line. You parked, and then you had to stand in line to get in the building. So, I remember that part, and I can remember there being large crowds of us walking in between, so I remember that part of it. Dennis Neill: I think one quote Jack had was he expected 10,000. Val Bode: And I think we surpassed that at one point, yeah. The attendance was phenomenal. 18 �Dennis Neill: And Toby mentioned about paying rent and probably paying for security and so forth. Did you actually have to pay national, too, as part of... Val Bode: Yes. Dennis Neill: And kind of, how did that work out? Did you pay for just the transportation, or were there other fees associated? Val Bode: Actually, yes and no. Doug Hartson: For the Quilts to come from San Francisco… Val Bode: There was a fee, just a display fee. And we actually had transportation donated by a trucking company. I cannot remember their name, I'm sorry. We also had all of our stanchions that we used for display and divisions and so on and so forth. All of that was donated by a local company with whom Jack had a connection, and he arranged that every display. They were wonderful. We had most of our printing was donated, mostly by Oneok. And we listed them as a donor. I'm trying to remember, there were so many things. But it was costly to have a major display, because the fee to the national organization was significant. It was a significant fee, and so that was the starting point. And then you had all these other things. You had to rent the facility, you had to have security, you had to display materials, the printing, just so much that you wouldn't think of just off the top of your head. Dennis Neill: It seemed like you had volunteer counselors too. Val Bode: We did, we did, and many of those came from other organizations in town, but we reached out to RAIN and TOHR and all of the AIDS and HIV organizations for help from their counseling professionals so that when there was someone who was really in trouble, really having a tough time, we could get, hone in, the volunteer involved could hone in on a counselor and get them together and if necessary take them to a back room or whatever was required in order to help them get through it because some people became very emotional. It was really tough. Doug Hartson: We went through a lot of boxes of these [tissues]. Val Bode: We bought a lot of tissues. Doug Hartson: One of... each 12x12 because just like Sharon's story of the student with the cowboy hat, upon entering it was just like, oh yeah, there's another field trip and then by the time they were ready to leave it had touched his heart and did a lot of people. Whether you knew a person on that panel or not, it's just the emotion of realizing what that represents. Val Bode: And we saw that over and over and over again. Doug Hartson: Which made it, not sounding tacky, but it made it rewarding and knowing that we were reaching the community and that's why we were doing it. Val Bode: Well, and in retrospect, it was incredibly important work that we did. We, I don't think, fully realized at the time what we were doing as far as its impact, but we recognized it in little pieces like with the kid with the cowboy hat. The mother, there 19 �was a mother down near Muskogee who called me and wanted to make a panel for her son, but her husband, who was a stepdad, was objecting. He did not want her to be involved. And we talked, I don't know how many times, on the phone. And I did everything I knew to do to try and help her along with this process. And as our next display became closer and I had talked to her about bringing her panel to that display, she's always said, “I just don't think I'll be able to do it. My husband doesn't want me to do it. I don't know that I can do it”. And I remember at that display, someone who was working at the table where you checked in new panels came and found me and said, there's a lady here who wants to see you. And I would not have recognized, I'd never met her in person, but it was her. And that touched my heart because somehow, she was able to do that and to bring us her son's panel and she shared it with me and told me all about it and how she was so glad that she was finally able to do that and to bring it to us there at the Quilt display. And it had a tremendous impact on me that I was a little part of that and that somehow, she did what she wanted to do. Dennis Neill: So you mentioned this was a new panel. Was each display a mix of panels from National and then the local panels? And would you talk through a little bit about how that was accomplished, how you let new panels in, and then what was the process of returning those new panels to the NAMES Project? Val Bode: Okay. Doug Hartson: It was a combination of previous or older panels and then the new ones, like Val was saying, the mother from Muskogee, unfortunately there were always new panels. So there was a table at the display where you could bring your panel and check it in and then of course, we would include it in the current display. And then, I don't remember how long after the fact that we had to send it back to San Francisco, but again, we kept several here and several had been on display here at the Equality Center. Val Bode: We documented every new panel that came in with, you know, details of its content, details of the panel maker or panel makers, all of the information that the National Project would want to archive along with this panel. I believe we sent most of the new panels back with the remainder of the Quilt and along with the documentation. We may have kept a few for local displays. The national organization made every effort to send us 12 by 12 sections that included names that originated in Tulsa, whether it was a Tulsa person who lived here or a family or panel maker who lived here. And so they did a really good job of that. We also requested specifically individual 12 by 12s. Every 12 by 12 has a number and so we were able to look for names in the list that we wanted to have included and request that 12 by 12. And they were very accommodating about making that happen. It didn't happen always because there were other displays going on simultaneously all over the country, but they did a really good job of getting us the panels that we wanted to see. Dennis Neill: I believe the Names Project website, which is still a searchable website, does it have all that detail that you were to collect on each panel or is it just a summary like name and date of birth? 20 �Val Bode: Yeah, it's basically a summary. They have archival photos of every individual panel that are absolutely wonderful. My brother-in-law ordered for me and my sister a framed photo of Kenny's panel and then it has an inset at the bottom that says the Names Project AIDS Memorial Quilt. And they really have done a good job of archiving and protecting the Quilts. Dennis Neill: So Val, when you bring that up, I believe this must be an example of one from the National with Philip Bray? Val Bode: Absolutely, absolutely. Philip Bray, yes. Dennis Neill: Philip was very active with us with TOHR for a number of years. Val Bode: So you can see by this photo, it's a high-quality photo of the panel. You get that, Dennis? Dennis Neill: Thank you very much. Val Bode: Yeah, those are wonderful. Dennis Neill: So we're very blessed, Val and Doug, to have a nice collection of material that you all helped create. And one, I'd like for you to talk a little bit more, Val, about how Jack got involved, what was his emotional connection, and then talk to us a little bit about the material you have and then, Doug, you can talk a little bit about the material that you have. So Val, why don't you start? Val Bode: Well, Jack had a very close friend who died from AIDS, and I believe he had moved to Dallas. I think so. And that was the first panel that Jack made. I think Jack made several over the years, because he lost other friends as well. Jack was a man who was dedicated to things that he believed in. He was an officer in the Navy. He was a successful employee of Social Security after his retirement from the Navy, and he was a force with which to be reckoned. And so Jack, I think, was one of the first people in Tulsa to recognize that this entity, the Quilt, had tremendous power, that it had the power to heal, the power to teach, the power to change minds. And he was dedicated to the Quilt. His dedication had no bounds. He was there every minute of every day of every display. He never missed a moment of it. And his ability to impact the rest of us was very strong, wasn't it, Doug? He was a strong personality who could be a gentle giant and a delightful man. And I was honored one time he referred to me as the daughter he never had. And that touched me very deeply because he was a sweetheart to me. I remember, he could be difficult to deal with at moments, he had his times. Doug Hartson: This is true. Yeah. Val Bode: But when he decided to retire from the active board of the NAMES Project Tulsa, Sharon Thoele and I took over, and Jack had trouble letting go, and I remember Sharon saying, well, we've just got to talk to him. And we agreed, and she said, well, you're going to have to do it because he likes you better. Dennis Neill: Do you remember what year that was? 21 �Val Bode: It was late in the 90s, yeah. Dennis Neill: So was he involved with you for all four? Val Bode: Yes. Every single one. Toby Jenkins: So Val has talked about Jack Francis, who his picture, and he is on our military veterans wall of honor, and you talked about his being a very direct and forceful person. That was because he was a lieutenant commander of an Air Force carrier in World War II. So he served our country, and so he was used to people doing what he said. Doug Hartson: And we did. Val Bode: I have to share a story with you. Jack died peacefully in his sleep, and his dear friend Don Barnum and I found him in his home, in his apartment, because we became concerned, we couldn't reach him. And so we were there into the wee hours of the night waiting for the medical examiner or someone. And I remember one of the police officers who first responded to our 911 call and seemed to be in charge, noticed a framed picture of Jack with some medals and his title. And he came to me and he said, I see your friend was a lieutenant commander in the Navy. And I said, yes, he was. And he said, that's a pretty high rank. And I said, yes, I know that. And if he could sit up right now, he would tell you to get this show on the road. Toby Jenkins: So let me interject this. In 2011, when the ban was lifted on allowing gays to serve openly in the military, and we had military recruiters come from the Pentagon, Jack was in the lobby when they arrived. And when the U.S. Navy military recruiter walked through, Jack stood out of his chair. By then he was pretty feeble and he stood out of his chair and he saluted him. And then he sat down and just wept and wept. That military recruiter kind of hugged him and it was a very emotional thing that he had lived long enough to see gay people be able to serve openly in the military. This is so our viewers will know who Jack Francis was. Val Bode: Thank you. Yes. He was very proud of his military service. And that meant a great deal to him that he did live to see that happen. Toby Jenkins: Well, that explained why he was forced to be... Doug Hartson: Yes, Jack, whatever you say, Jack. Val Bode: Yes. Dennis Neill: So Val, talk a little bit more about your collection of information. Val Bode: Well, just over the years, I saved everything I could think of that came along. So many photographs from not only the national displays, but our regional displays. And those were really important that I was able to share them. It was great that I had someone to share them with. My concern was, what is going to happen to these when I'm gone from this earth? My grandchildren, they probably don't want them. And although some of my grandchildren are in those books as little children and they're grown adults now, but to having the Equality Center be willing to take these things from me and... 22 �Dennis Neill: We are honored. Val Bode: Thank you. Thank you. I am so happy to know that they will be cared for and that they'll be available to other people because everything that's in here was important to me. Doug Hartson: It's history. Val Bode: It's part of my history and I feel it's some of the most important work I've ever done. Dennis Neill: Amanda, you promise to take good care of her materials? Amanda Thompson: Absolutely! Val Bode: Thank you, Amanda. Amanda Thompson: It's a big honor. Dennis Neill: And Doug, do you want to talk a little bit about what you have? Doug Hartson: Basically the same stuff. Anyone who knows me knows that I keep a lot of paperwork and save everything, like Jack did. So, no, I feel just like Val does that...My nephews don't want it and I, going through things at home, I was just like this is such a big part of my life and I want others to have the privilege to seeing this. It is part of our history and those who weren't even born yet to have the opportunity to look and and hopefully also be touched and know that it's unfortunately not over, that it's an important part of all of our lives, and so I'm. As I come across more goodies, I will definitely bring them down to you, but I'm very grateful that OkEq is going to take care of it. Dennis Neill: Thank you very much. Toby, why don't you talk a little bit more with them about the involvement of the center and how the Quilts came here and then your story about when we send them back and anything else you want to cover. Toby Jenkins: So, Dennis is wanting us to highlight how, as y'all were on the front end of how the Quilts came into being, this was the way for families and friends to be able to express their love and remember their loved ones, and it also then became an advocacy tool that you were able to display it to the public, and it changed the heart of a nation. It changed our country. It appealed to something that everybody in our country had a connection: the loss of a loved one and family- and these are not outsiders. This is my family member, and I love them. So the Quilts were, when we opened the Equality Center, when we purchased this permanent space, we became one of the few LGBT organizations in the country that owned its own building. Now I know that that's not profound, but it was at the time. We had our own building and it belonged to us. It wasn't a leased space, and so that's how we were able to approach- at that time I think the Names Project was in AtlantaDoug Hartson: Yes. Val Bode: Yes Toby Jenkins: So we were able to approach them. And they allowed us… we have the documents they allowed us to have on permanent display, the panels we 23 �specifically had on the permanent display, the panels of individuals from Oklahoma, not just necessarily Tulsa, but from Oklahoma. Yeah, so, more than once, more than once, I would say dozens and dozens of times- we would have family members and friends, coworkers, people who went to church, college. They would come to the center and see the panel, see a Quilt panel, and had no idea it would be here and would see it for the first time, and it would be a very emotional, moving time. So when individuals would tour the Equality Center, we had university groups, corporations, faith communities who would tour- we always made sure we brought special attention and explained the AIDS panels and the stories. Always in those tours there would be individuals who would recognize the names of those Tulsans or those Oklahomans. And then when they moved, when they built the new AIDS Museum in San Francisco, the national organization wanted to bring all the Quilts in, and so they asked that our Quilts return. And well, there was, you know, kind of some confusion over that and we decided at the moment I mean, I was willing to fight- these are our Quilts, these are Oklahoma Quilts. You told us we can have them on display. And when we finally our board, decided, you know, we need, we need to let them be a part of the national thing. And so we, Jeremy Stevens and his partner, Alan Mueggenborg, I think as I pronounce it. They approached us. Jeremy Stevens was serving on the board at the time and he said we could make replicas of those. And so what we did is we pulled in our photographers and our staff and it was a very detailed process and we had, if you remember Council Oak, we had the Quilt is going to be leaving, you come see it, and we had thousands of people come to see it for the last weekend and then we took those pictures and we created silk screen panels that are there's such high quality definition photography that when you look at them you think you're looking at a three-dimensional image, because the Quilts you could- I mean it had people's personal effects, their letter jackets, their baptismal gowns, their legos, so we made sure we did it. Now, the reason that became significant, CenterLink- the International Network of LGBT centers- when they heard that we had done that, they asked for us to do a little tutorial on how we did that and then other centers then would request the panels from their area and they would bring them in and have them digitally reproduced. And so it became a way that centers across the country could have facsimiles is what they are. The other part that I want to talk about is the way it was able to change people's lives. It made it personal instead of this being a report you heard on the news about right wing fundamentalist people who wanted to use this as this is God's judgment on the country and they brought them up, you know, when we were in this, Americans have lots of opinions and so there were people who ostracized them, there were people who felt like they got what they deserved, but the AIDS Quilts shut that down. It brought that to silence and it made them be ashamed of them being so cruel and the majority of the American people began to say these are our people, these are our families, these are our siblings and our children and our spouses and our coworkers and this is them and it really changed the hearts of the country. The other significant part, I wish I had the medical technology for this, but the AIDS epidemic 24 �was so frightening because we didn't know and then there wasn't a treatment. You were diagnosed, you got sick and you could be gone quickly. Doug, do you happen to remember the first friend you had die of AIDS? Do you remember? Val, do you remember any details like that? Val Bode. Kenny was the first person I actually knew who had AIDS. If there was anybody earlier, I was not aware of it. Doug Hartson: John Thomeyer was probably mine and then there's the list, but I'm happy to say that I have quite a few friends who are living with HIV and AIDS, fortunately with the cocktails and other medications that have come along, which I think is all part of it. That circle is that okay, this is the problem, this is part of acknowledging and remembering the problem and then you come up with hopefully a solution and again, knowledge is power. Toby Jenkins: So this is the point I want to make about that. The researchers, the medical professionals who were trying to find a treatment for those who had been infected and those who were living with AIDS, that took over a decade for them to finally find…that discovery, that medical discovery, that treatment plan, 30 years later is what saved this world from the pandemic destroying the world. The deaths were horrific, but they were small compared to what they could have been because the medical discoveries and treatment plans, those same treatment plans that saved individuals' lives, then began the treatment plan for us to have our vaccines and for us to be able to save people's lives. So for me, I remember when the news began to report this and Fauci was our, I forget what his role was… Dennis Neill: Pretty much head of CDC. Toby Jenkins: So I can remember at the time when the news broke that they found something and it was the people who had worked on the AIDS vaccines. I remember thinking to myself, they did not die in vain. We didn't lose them in vain. Their lives will live on, their legacies will live on. They saved the world from a greater pandemic. Doug Hartson: Decades later, I mean, who would have ever thought? Val Bode: Yes. Dennis Neill: So what else would you all like to share about the NAMES Project, your personal involvement, the impact, and how you see a living legacy of the NAMES Project going forward? Val Bode: I think it's something that we can continue to share, that even though we don't have active panels, active chapter in Tulsa, we can continue to share with friends, acquaintances, family, our stories as we're doing here today. And as we have spoken and gone on, I think of my, I have five grandchildren, mostly grown, all of them, and five great-grandchildren at varying stages of their lives. And for my great-grandchildren, you know, I raised three of my grandchildren, and they were with me all the time at NAMES Project meetings and displays and everything, and so they remember all this very clearly, and they still talk about it. But my great- 25 �grandchildren have no exposure to this, and I plan to give them some. It is my desire in being here and hearing our own stories to share some of this with those little ones. They need to know that this happened, that their uncle was one of the names on this Quilt, and that we remember his name. Dennis Neill: Hopefully, once we have the video ready for you, they'll be willing to sit down and see it. Val Bode: Absolutely. Dennis Neill: And Doug, how about for you? Doug Hartson: Basically, never forget. We don't have any displays currently. I think it's wonderful that everything is housed in San Francisco, so it's not lost. There's not a panel that someone made that's going to be forgotten. But it doesn't need to be forgotten here. We need to keep it current. We need to keep the people who were not even born yet aware of what major part of our history this is or was and still is. And so just never forget, and may it live on. Dennis Neill: I think it's particularly important that we do keep the focus, because we know the current administration is downplaying World AIDS Day and the other important steps that had been taken previously. But we're still going to be there, and we're still going to be telling these stories, aren't we? Val Bode: Yes, we are. Dennis Neill: Toby, anything else you think we should cover in this interview. Toby Jenkins: Well, I just want you to know what an honor. Thank you so much. That must have taken hours and money out of your own pockets, and you had to miss lots of other stuff, and you probably, you were so busy. And I know that probably at the time, you may have had people who criticized or complained, why didn't you do it this way? But thank you so much that you did it, and that both of you have faithfully kept materials that can become a part of the official archives. Val Bode: Well, and I think a great deal of the honor is ours as well. I'm certainly honored that you would invite us here to do this, and that you are willing to take our souvenirs and take care of them. Doug Hartson: Our cherished possessions. Toby Jenkins: And I would say this. I don't know that Val, I've ever knew this part about Kenny, that his panel had Legos on it. And I'm telling you, this could be taken out to schools. Because right now, Legos is everybody. Val Bode: It's big, yes. Toby Jenkins: And people would really connect with it. Val Bode: I think you're right, yeah. And in fact, my grandchildren, who were little at the time when we did this, they were always intrigued with Uncle Kenny's panel because it had Legos on it. You know, that was a big draw for them. Dennis Neill: So can you retrieve the panels for a showing any more? 26 �Toby Jenkins: Yeah, you can. Doug and Val: You can. Dennis Neill: We need to think about that for the next World AIDS Day. Dennis Neill: Any final comments that you all would like to share? Doug Hatson: Just thank you for having us. Val Bode: Oh, thank you for this opportunity. It's been delightful. Dennis Neill: Like Toby said, it is our honor. Val Bode: Well, ours as well. Dennis Neill: We will protect it. Val Bode: Thank you. Doug Hartson: Thank you. Val Bode: All of you. 27 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Series] HIV & AIDS > NAMES Project Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br />Box 3, Folder 5 - NAMES Project<br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Val Bode and Doug Hartson Interview Description An account of the resource Deed of gifts and informed consents available in person at the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center. Subject The topic of the resource Val Bode and Doug Hartson Names Project Interview from February 12, 2026 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Val Bode, Doug Hartson, Dennis Neill Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource February 12, 2026 2026 AIDS AIDS deaths AIDS Quilt AIDS/HIV AIDS/HIV discrimination AIDS/HIV education Dennis Neill Dennis R. Neill Dennis R. Neill Equality Center Doug Hartson Equality Center Feast with Friends HIV HIV/AIDs interview NAMES Project NAMES Project quilt OkEq Equality Center oral history oral history interview oral history transcript transcript Val Bode video https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/c9d67df35090fb846d82e38728243423.jpeg 3f7500dd0ec1f26bfe646192d40da5e3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Collection] Oklahoma LGBT+ History Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br /><br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [2026] Veteran's Wall https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/c9595acfdf635bd17f3530d01ce54e06.pdf 537c53efc893da073a9a55ec451d16cd PDF Text Text ____________________________________________________________ Flash From The Past by Tim Turner And help from others... When you look at some of the photos from the Playroom Club era, 1978 to 1986, it almost seems as though everyone was happy and gay during that period in time. From what I remember, we were. We worked hard and we played hard, like most Americans at that period in history. The end of the Free Love Era certainly was not evident in the gay club scene in the late 70's. AIDS was pretty much unknown, at least in our part of the world, life was good...spirits were high, there was uncharted territory. Around 1970, I got to hear great stories of the first known gay bars in the Tulsa area. Tropical Gardens, as far back as the Early 40s, operated by two sisters in an old filling station; The Blue Note Lounge located on North Denver during the 40s and 50s; The Blue Haven opened November, 1948 by the 'much loved' Producer, Activist and Entrepreneur, the late M.C. Parker. M.C. Parker and Tim Warren would later cultivate and produce the largest, most spectacular Oklahoma Gay Event in history, the Miss Gay Oklahoma Pageant at the Camelot Inn. (Tim Warren, his life partner forty years his younger, was later murdered and his body discovered in Mohawk Park. The murder was never solved, as well as most gay murders in our city as I recall. ) M.C. was a promoter, he contracted sponsorship by major brand names such as Phillip Morris and Halston and achieved an estimated attendance of over 2000, and that's not including the number of baptist protesters outside the hotel. The Camelot was sold out for this event for one of the few times in it's history, it was said, and was never the same afterwards. The entire event was, to say the least, amazing... especially for it's time in history. We could talk about it for hours over cocktails sometime. The Milwaukee Tavern, a 40s and 50s lesbian bar located at about 15th and Cincinnati; Bishops Bar, 40s and 50s located downtown with a mixed crowd, but a popular gay hangout; The St. Moritz 40's and 50s located on South Main which was THE place to go and was closed down after a move, in anticipation of Liquor by the Drink... which didn't pass. Little Mexico, late 50s, owned by Thurman Glynn. The Doghouse, owned by Bob Johnson. The famous Skoo-Bee-Do Club owned by Paul Scott who, rumor has it, met with a curious and untimely death in Hawaii. Then there were the clubs I have personal memories of. At 20 years old I actually had no idea there were nightspots that were frequented by crowds of gays. I actually thought that there might be at least ten other gay people in the whole State of Oklahoma. That was, until I ventured into Friends Lounge at 3rd and Utica, owned by Tracy McLaughlin, aka Tony. Tracy has always been somewhat of my mentor as far as the club business. He ran a tight ship and a good bar. He worked hard and loved giving the kids a safe place off the streets. Friends Lounge was famous for it's Friday night drag shows and was a coming out place for hundreds over the years. Unfortunately, much of the potential profits went for court costs and attorney fees over time. Frequent police raids and obvious, blatant incidents of harassment were much too �frequent and it was my first personal experience of bigotry, political and social intolerance. I was amazed to realize that at the same time I had discovered a multitude of others of the same sexual orientation, I was also unknowingly transcending from a safe, accepted majority into that of an often misunderstood and shunned minority. The battle, for me, had begun. Tracy did a lot toward gay acceptance in Tulsa and for Oklahoma. Most of which today's generation will never realize. But Tracy never wanted the spot light, he only wanted to be left alone and given an opportunity to make a living and provide a place for gay people to go. Equal treatment to straight bars. I will never forget, with amusement, one time when Tracy was to appear in court on a trumped up charge of some kind, I asked him if he had a good attorney and he told me he didn't need one. When I asked why not, he told me to show up in court and see for myself. Tracy showed up in court with five stunning, outlandish, drag queens and the case was thrown out before they had a chance to parade to the witness stand. The Judge didn't want his court room turned into a circus, although the police had already taken the first step towards that end. Friends lounge would later move West down third street to be called Tracy's, then The New Edition and later sold to Jimmy and Roy and became the new location for the Tool Box, which moved from downtown where Renegades is still located. Around the same era, things were hopping downtown. (The Fruit Loop as it was called.) Friends Lounge was less than 5 minutes from the famous pink pool table in the Zebra Lounge on Main Street, owned by Tom Oliver, which was just around the corner from the Taj Mahal, owned by Norma Peterson and later purchased by the late Pete Longenbaugh and Robert Kowalski (aka Sugar). Sugar was the victim of a brutal knifing inside the Taj Mahal after hours....also unsolved. The Fruit Loop was notorious for hustlers and parking lot parties for 'after clubbers' and those too young to make it past the I.D. check at the clubs. The police seemed to just allow it for a period of time then would randomly decide to clamp down... but the revelers would return and the cycle would continue. About the only dance club, The Gala at 11th and Lewis, (Just under the Meadow Gold Milk Sign), eventually to be re-opened as Tim's Playroom Club, (Yours Truely) had been closed for about 5 years, and that left Mary and Jody's The Club" on Memorial which had a very strict door policy and was a good distance from the downtown action. "The Club" was probably one of the most versatile gay/lesbian mixes next to the Gala of all times. We all partied together, both inside and out. I saw the vacancy for a dance club and had the itch to get into the gay club business myself. I eventually met a new acquaintance who's uncle (uh huh) purchased a huge brick 13,500 sq. ft. masonry building at 911 S. Main, which was very close to the action and would fill the void in the club scene. With a lot of ambition, sweat, learning experiences and a little borrowed money, Tulsa's grandest, most beautiful Art Deco Disco to date (one of the first) opened with a frenzy. I'm thinking that it was about 1974. Bright red walls and bar lined with metal flake padding, mirrors out the ying yang and a beautiful Art Deco stage with Silver Lamé curtains, The Queen of Hearts Club and Cafe would be short lived, but it introduced Tulsa to a new era of national advertising, dance clubs with professional sound and light shows, DJ's, pageants, national entertainers like the Laughing Kahunas from Hawaii and Sami Joe Cole known for her hits, "Tell me a Lie" and "It Could Have Been Me", and brought hundreds more out of the closet in Tulsa and OKC. It also began to draw more attention from the city fathers which meant more media coverage, more cops....more lawyers. �After the Queen of Hearts closed, it became New York, New York for a while and then was purchased by Evelyn White who named it The Fountain of Youth, then The 911 Club, then Papillon. After Evelyn sold it to Bill Oliver, who closed the Zebra after some 20 years, it became Caruso's. People loved the club, as did I, and didn't want to let it go. Carusso's was later demolished for parking space along with Mary's, our favorite wino bar which was snuggled between Queen of Hearts and the Tiffany Club at 915 S. Main, owned by the late Jim Smith, Robert Wilson and some other idiot. Anyway, at least my first 'dream club' became established in the minds of many. I then dabbled with Tim's Anything Goes Club, a plush conversation cocktail lounge at 58th and Peoria in the rear of the center and gave it up as "too quiet" after a short time for the opportunity to manage the New Plantation Club with some guys from Dallas, at 51st and Yale. Eventually, through trial and error and with a tip from a well known and much appreciated Tulsa Newspaper sports writer, I opened the type of bar that I was most comfortable in.(Trashy Classy, as some called it, very much like Tramps is today!) He pointed me to a location that had been a well known gay hang-out for close to twenty five years (Including the next seven) and had been closed for the previous five years. Thus, becoming one of Tulsa's most controversial yet fun, notorious and nationally known gay clubs ever, Tim's Playroom Club. Eventually we joined in with the OHR Blueboys and helped gay softball achieve fame in Oklahoma. We had national invitational tournaments in Tulsa as well as traveled to Houston, Dallas, Kansas City , OKC and Wichita. It really helped put Tulsa on the gay map. We once played in one of the nations largest invitational gay tournaments in Houston among a field of twenty two teams from places such as New York, San Francisco, Atlanta and won the Most Spirited Team (Miss congeniality) award. I still think it's because we had the best-looking team there and we made more friends in the bars. Team Photo Doubling in size in just a few years, The Playroom would offer a diverse crowd a variety of entertainment and events. From a Cruise Bar at noon to a wild, thumping Dance bar at night Tulsa got it's first feel of Cerwin Vega Earthquake speakers in a bar that pounded away at the fifty year old brick walls causing them to crumble. It also got a close up look at dozens of Tulsa's Police Officers who constantly toured with flashlights in their hands and disgust and smirks in their faces. It was an ongoing battle. We had it set up so that whichever of the staff went to jail for whatever trivial or trumped up reason, Team B would contact the attorney to bail out Team A and reopen immediately. During the seven years of operation there were more than fifty arrests of myself or staff members and resulted in NO CONVICTIONS. Imagine that. Eventually, with the help of KOTV Channel Six who did a thirty minute segment on Tulsa gays, most of which was filmed in my bar and called "Strangers In The Night" (of which they no longer recall or can find a copy of in their archives), and aired it during prime time, a face to face discussion with then Tulsa Police Chief Jack Purdy and a meeting with a nationally recognized attorney who could not represent us because of conflicting interests, but made a strong recommendation to the Police Department Internal Affairs that they cease the harassment and change their policy and treatment toward gays or face another Stonewall or worse, a lawsuit. Things got much better for a few years. Some policy changes were eventually made and the attitudes seems to have improved somewhat over time. Although there were still questions, such as the tragic and unbelievable unsolved multiple murder of manager Robert Kowalski (aka Sugar)and another, which inadvertently closed the downtown version of the Taj Mahal. There �were several other unsolved gay murders in Tulsa before and after that incident. (another story) Pete tried moving the Taj to 11th & Lewis behind the Playroom, in the old Zebra Club, but I don't recall that it lasted too long. It surprises most to hear that there were as many as thirteen active, open gay bars in Tulsa during this time frame and most were successful. Great clubs with another complete history behind them, such as Zippers at 33rd and Yale owned by the late John Willis and of course the legendary Bamboo Lounge on Pine Street which has reopened a couple of times since the infamous late Gene Curnigan.Tulsa Mining Company, Seekers Choice, Over the Rainbow and Dante's, just to name a few, but none bring back the memories of the early days like the old downtown scene as seen in many other larger cities. Due to the eventual adoption of the much misunderstood at the time, and misconstrued by the public, Liquor by the Drink, I realized that the end of the club business, as I knew it, had come. Gone were the back-door bottle club days. The bulk of the profits would now be re-directed from the owners and investors to the government coffuers, using a common method known as overtaxation and regulations.....or progress, as some would call it. But that is yet, another story all together. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Collection] Oklahoma LGBT+ History Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br /><br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Text Any textual data included in the document ____________________________________________________________ Flash From The Past by Tim Turner And help from others... When you look at some of the photos from the Playroom Club era, 1978 to 1986, it almost seems as though everyone was happy and gay during that period in time. From what I remember, we were. We worked hard and we played hard, like most Americans at that period in history. The end of the Free Love Era certainly was not evident in the gay club scene in the late 70's. AIDS was pretty much unknown, at least in our part of the world, life was good...spirits were high, there was uncharted territory. Around 1970, I got to hear great stories of the first known gay bars in the Tulsa area. Tropical Gardens, as far back as the Early 40s, operated by two sisters in an old filling station; The Blue Note Lounge located on North Denver during the 40s and 50s; The Blue Haven opened November, 1948 by the 'much loved' Producer, Activist and Entrepreneur, the late M.C. Parker. M.C. Parker and Tim Warren would later cultivate and produce the largest, most spectacular Oklahoma Gay Event in history, the Miss Gay Oklahoma Pageant at the Camelot Inn. (Tim Warren, his life partner forty years his younger, was later murdered and his body discovered in Mohawk Park. The murder was never solved, as well as most gay murders in our city as I recall. ) M.C. was a promoter, he contracted sponsorship by major brand names such as Phillip Morris and Halston and achieved an estimated attendance of over 2000, and that's not including the number of baptist protesters outside the hotel. The Camelot was sold out for this event for one of the few times in it's history, it was said, and was never the same afterwards. The entire event was, to say the least, amazing... especially for it's time in history. We could talk about it for hours over cocktails sometime. The Milwaukee Tavern, a 40s and 50s lesbian bar located at about 15th and Cincinnati; Bishops Bar, 40s and 50s located downtown with a mixed crowd, but a popular gay hangout; The St. Moritz 40's and 50s located on South Main which was THE place to go and was closed down after a move, in anticipation of Liquor by the Drink... which didn't pass. Little Mexico, late 50s, owned by Thurman Glynn. The Doghouse, owned by Bob Johnson. The famous Skoo-Bee-Do Club owned by Paul Scott who, rumor has it, met with a curious and untimely death in Hawaii. Then there were the clubs I have personal memories of. At 20 years old I actually had no idea there were nightspots that were frequented by crowds of gays. I actually thought that there might be at least ten other gay people in the whole State of Oklahoma. That was, until I ventured into Friends Lounge at 3rd and Utica, owned by Tracy McLaughlin, aka Tony. Tracy has always been somewhat of my mentor as far as the club business. He ran a tight ship and a good bar. He worked hard and loved giving the kids a safe place off the streets. Friends Lounge was famous for it's Friday night drag shows and was a coming out place for hundreds over the years. Unfortunately, much of the potential profits went for court costs and attorney fees over time. Frequent police raids and obvious, blatant incidents of harassment were much too frequent and it was my first personal experience of bigotry, political and social intolerance. I was amazed to realize that at the same time I had discovered a multitude of others of the same sexual orientation, I was also unknowingly transcending from a safe, accepted majority into that of an often misunderstood and shunned minority. The battle, for me, had begun. Tracy did a lot toward gay acceptance in Tulsa and for Oklahoma. Most of which today's generation will never realize. But Tracy never wanted the spot light, he only wanted to be left alone and given an opportunity to make a living and provide a place for gay people to go. Equal treatment to straight bars. I will never forget, with amusement, one time when Tracy was to appear in court on a trumped up charge of some kind, I asked him if he had a good attorney and he told me he didn't need one. When I asked why not, he told me to show up in court and see for myself. Tracy showed up in court with five stunning, outlandish, drag queens and the case was thrown out before they had a chance to parade to the witness stand. The Judge didn't want his court room turned into a circus, although the police had already taken the first step towards that end. Friends lounge would later move West down third street to be called Tracy's, then The New Edition and later sold to Jimmy and Roy and became the new location for the Tool Box, which moved from downtown where Renegades is still located. Around the same era, things were hopping downtown. (The Fruit Loop as it was called.) Friends Lounge was less than 5 minutes from the famous pink pool table in the Zebra Lounge on Main Street, owned by Tom Oliver, which was just around the corner from the Taj Mahal, owned by Norma Peterson and later purchased by the late Pete Longenbaugh and Robert Kowalski (aka Sugar). Sugar was the victim of a brutal knifing inside the Taj Mahal after hours....also unsolved. The Fruit Loop was notorious for hustlers and parking lot parties for 'after clubbers' and those too young to make it past the I.D. check at the clubs. The police seemed to just allow it for a period of time then would randomly decide to clamp down... but the revelers would return and the cycle would continue. About the only dance club, The Gala at 11th and Lewis, (Just under the Meadow Gold Milk Sign), eventually to be re-opened as Tim's Playroom Club, (Yours Truely) had been closed for about 5 years, and that left Mary and Jody's The Club" on Memorial which had a very strict door policy and was a good distance from the downtown action. "The Club" was probably one of the most versatile gay/lesbian mixes next to the Gala of all times. We all partied together, both inside and out. I saw the vacancy for a dance club and had the itch to get into the gay club business myself. I eventually met a new acquaintance who's uncle (uh huh) purchased a huge brick 13,500 sq. ft. masonry building at 911 S. Main, which was very close to the action and would fill the void in the club scene. With a lot of ambition, sweat, learning experiences and a little borrowed money, Tulsa's grandest, most beautiful Art Deco Disco to date (one of the first) opened with a frenzy. I'm thinking that it was about 1974. Bright red walls and bar lined with metal flake padding, mirrors out the ying yang and a beautiful Art Deco stage with Silver Lamé curtains, The Queen of Hearts Club and Cafe would be short lived, but it introduced Tulsa to a new era of national advertising, dance clubs with professional sound and light shows, DJ's, pageants, national entertainers like the Laughing Kahunas from Hawaii and Sami Joe Cole known for her hits, "Tell me a Lie" and "It Could Have Been Me", and brought hundreds more out of the closet in Tulsa and OKC. It also began to draw more attention from the city fathers which meant more media coverage, more cops....more lawyers. After the Queen of Hearts closed, it became New York, New York for a while and then was purchased by Evelyn White who named it The Fountain of Youth, then The 911 Club, then Papillon. After Evelyn sold it to Bill Oliver, who closed the Zebra after some 20 years, it became Caruso's. People loved the club, as did I, and didn't want to let it go. Carusso's was later demolished for parking space along with Mary's, our favorite wino bar which was snuggled between Queen of Hearts and the Tiffany Club at 915 S. Main, owned by the late Jim Smith, Robert Wilson and some other idiot. Anyway, at least my first 'dream club' became established in the minds of many. I then dabbled with Tim's Anything Goes Club, a plush conversation cocktail lounge at 58th and Peoria in the rear of the center and gave it up as "too quiet" after a short time for the opportunity to manage the New Plantation Club with some guys from Dallas, at 51st and Yale. Eventually, through trial and error and with a tip from a well known and much appreciated Tulsa Newspaper sports writer, I opened the type of bar that I was most comfortable in.(Trashy Classy, as some called it, very much like Tramps is today!) He pointed me to a location that had been a well known gay hang-out for close to twenty five years (Including the next seven) and had been closed for the previous five years. Thus, becoming one of Tulsa's most controversial yet fun, notorious and nationally known gay clubs ever, Tim's Playroom Club. Eventually we joined in with the OHR Blueboys and helped gay softball achieve fame in Oklahoma. We had national invitational tournaments in Tulsa as well as traveled to Houston, Dallas, Kansas City , OKC and Wichita. It really helped put Tulsa on the gay map. We once played in one of the nations largest invitational gay tournaments in Houston among a field of twenty two teams from places such as New York, San Francisco, Atlanta and won the Most Spirited Team (Miss congeniality) award. I still think it's because we had the best-looking team there and we made more friends in the bars. Team Photo Doubling in size in just a few years, The Playroom would offer a diverse crowd a variety of entertainment and events. From a Cruise Bar at noon to a wild, thumping Dance bar at night Tulsa got it's first feel of Cerwin Vega Earthquake speakers in a bar that pounded away at the fifty year old brick walls causing them to crumble. It also got a close up look at dozens of Tulsa's Police Officers who constantly toured with flashlights in their hands and disgust and smirks in their faces. It was an ongoing battle. We had it set up so that whichever of the staff went to jail for whatever trivial or trumped up reason, Team B would contact the attorney to bail out Team A and reopen immediately. During the seven years of operation there were more than fifty arrests of myself or staff members and resulted in NO CONVICTIONS. Imagine that. Eventually, with the help of KOTV Channel Six who did a thirty minute segment on Tulsa gays, most of which was filmed in my bar and called "Strangers In The Night" (of which they no longer recall or can find a copy of in their archives), and aired it during prime time, a face to face discussion with then Tulsa Police Chief Jack Purdy and a meeting with a nationally recognized attorney who could not represent us because of conflicting interests, but made a strong recommendation to the Police Department Internal Affairs that they cease the harassment and change their policy and treatment toward gays or face another Stonewall or worse, a lawsuit. Things got much better for a few years. Some policy changes were eventually made and the attitudes seems to have improved somewhat over time. Although there were still questions, such as the tragic and unbelievable unsolved multiple murder of manager Robert Kowalski (aka Sugar)and another, which inadvertently closed the downtown version of the Taj Mahal. There were several other unsolved gay murders in Tulsa before and after that incident. (another story) Pete tried moving the Taj to 11th & Lewis behind the Playroom, in the old Zebra Club, but I don't recall that it lasted too long. It surprises most to hear that there were as many as thirteen active, open gay bars in Tulsa during this time frame and most were successful. Great clubs with another complete history behind them, such as Zippers at 33rd and Yale owned by the late John Willis and of course the legendary Bamboo Lounge on Pine Street which has reopened a couple of times since the infamous late Gene Curnigan.Tulsa Mining Company, Seekers Choice, Over the Rainbow and Dante's, just to name a few, but none bring back the memories of the early days like the old downtown scene as seen in many other larger cities. Due to the eventual adoption of the much misunderstood at the time, and misconstrued by the public, Liquor by the Drink, I realized that the end of the club business, as I knew it, had come. Gone were the back-door bottle club days. The bulk of the profits would now be re-directed from the owners and investors to the government coffuers, using a common method known as overtaxation and regulations.....or progress, as some would call it. But that is yet, another story all together. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [c. 1990] Tulsa Gay Bar History by Tim Turner Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Tim Turner Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Tim Turner Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tim Turner Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource About 1990 911 Club Art Deco Disco Bamboo Louge Bishops Bar Blue Haven Blue Note Lounge Bob Johnson Camelot Inn Caruso's Dante's Doghouse Evelyn White Fountain of Youth Friends Lunge Fruit Loop gala Gene Curnigan Jack Purdy Jim Smith John Willis Little Mexico M.C. Parker Mary's Milwaukee Tavern Miss Gay Oklahoma Pageant Mohawk Park Morma Peterson Murder New Edition New Plantation lub New York OHR Blueboys Over the Rainbow Papillon Paul Scott Pete Longenbaugh Queen of Hearts Renegades Rober Kowalski Robers Wilson Seekers Choice Skoo-Bee-Do St. Moritz Strangers in the Night KOTV Sugar Taj Mahal The Club Thurman Glynn Tim Turner Tim Warren Tim's Anything Goes Club Tim's Playroom Tom Oliver Tool Bo Tracy McLaughlin Tramps Tropical Gardens Tuffany Tulsa Bar History Tulsa Mining Company Zebra Lounge Zippers https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/6da3185e3c9411346acb45f174dd3c31.jpg 98c26387f8be6f490a4a4fa8804ee6c2 https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/98b5266fc83c9948564198c691c566c6.mp4 0c0146cc3f558b39b5d63d4dae7ac832 https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/062906c82060eb043f35e0daa45468ba.pdf 569c6056020b1a38f0eec877c89425b5 PDF Text Text Jimmy Flowers Story Subject Jimmy Flowers Description From Julie Tucker - Trainum, August 2019 - Jimmy Flowers was one of the very first members of the AIDS Coalition in Tulsa. he was a young man when he was part of Stonewall and in his interview he talks about Stonewall. jimmy died in the mid 2000s. he was interviewed so we could share his story at the YST support group "Tulsa Youth Discovering Diversity." Creator Julie Tucker-Trainum, Youth Services of Tulsa Date Interview was conducted in 1999 or 2000 Original Format VHS Duration 1 hour 20 minutes [00:00:00] Julie Trainum: And we're here to talk to a fellow by the name of Jimmy Flowers, and Jimmy is 41. He told me his age, so I hope he doesn't mind me telling the tape. And all the things that you're seeing on these tables are things that Jimmy has gathered up over the years, specifically about the gay movement. And all of these things are very, very telling, but probably the best person that can tell is Jimmy himself. And he's been real interested in talking with us and with the young people to let them know what he went through and the things that he saw. [00:00:36] Julie Trainum: So, Jimmy, how are you? [00:00:38] Jimmy Flowers: Well, so far so good. [00:00:40] Julie Trainum: So far so good? [00:00:41] Jimmy Flowers: Yeah. [00:00:41] Julie Trainum: Can you begin a little bit with your history and saying what happened with you when you were a youngster? You can maybe talk specifically about when you first understood that you were gay and what happened with your family. [00:00:59] Jimmy Flowers: Well, number one, I've always known that I was gay. Number two, I was about 11 years old, and what happened was that I was kissing a guy underneath the staircase. He was 14 and I was 11, just kissing. And then my father, of course, he was the supervisor of the building. And I didn't realize he was home, and he caught me underneath the staircase, kissing the guy. He dragged me by the hair and sort of beat me, slapped me around, saying it wasn't natural, it was disgusting, it was a sin, and everything like that. [00:01:45] Jimmy Flowers: And my mother started yelling at me and, you know. Then took me to the school psychiatrist. This is going back to 1966. [00:01:54] Julie Trainum: And you were about 11 at the time? [00:01:56] Jimmy Flowers: I was about 11. I can't remember exactly every date or detail, but I was about 11, 11 and a half maybe. And what happened was that they thought at that time that if you were gay or lesbian, if they catch you at an early age that you would become a heterosexual. And so they put me in a mental institution for almost two and a half, three years. And in that time, they tried to come to us that we were sick, 1 �that it wasn't natural, that we were sinners of God. And they also, some of the things they did was very disgusting. [00:02:40] Jimmy Flowers: They forced us to be in the same room with another lesbian young woman. We were both nude. They thought if we saw each other's body that we would be attracted to each other. But unfortunately it didn't work that way. And then they showed us pictures of videotapes of men and women having sex. [00:03:04] Julie Trainum: And this is still when you were a youngster? [00:03:08] Jimmy Flowers: Oh yes. They thought if we saw the actual lovemaking of heterosexuals making love, intercourse, that it would change us to become heterosexuals. We were constantly pumped in our heads that we were not gay. At that time, we didn't know the word gay. We used the word fancy because it wasn't offensive to us. We didn't like the word homosexual. We didn't like the word homo or faggot or queer or bull dyke or lesbians. So therefore we used the word fancy because it wasn't too offensive. Then, in this time, they showed the male tenants, which was the guard. [00:04:00] Jimmy Flowers: Forgive me if I get a little bit emotional because some of the things that happened in the mental institution, you wouldn't believe unless you saw it yourself. I was given Thorazine and child treatment to become straight. And I kept on saying I was born gay. It's a little bit hard to explain because I like the word gay. I said I was born to be a fancy. And they brought a priest in since they thought I was on the religious side. They brought a priest in. And the priest said to me, and I'll never forget it. [00:04:48] Jimmy Flowers: He said, you are a sinner of God and it's wrong. It's not natural. It's against nature. And I just kept on saying I was born this way. [00:04:57] Jimmy Flowers: And then he slapped me, and I got a little bit angry, and I took Grant's collar from his neck, he was a Roman Catholic priest, and I said how dare you call yourself a man of God, if you are. That's pretty courageous for a youngster. I was about 11, 11 and a half, 12 maybe. And some gays and some young lesbians, they thought they were safe, and they committed suicide because they could not change. [00:05:32] Jimmy Flowers: And they made a stand up while they took a 14 year old lesbian young woman, and laid her down while the male attendants, she wanted to shoot me, while the male attendants forced us to watch while they were having intercourse with her. They thought by us watching, all the gay males we lined up, and the young gay females lined up on each side. They thought that they would make us to be straight, and they were constantly crinkling into our ears that we were sick. [00:06:31] Jimmy Flowers: So there was a lot of reason for young gay and lesbian kids to not come out, and to not say, and not let other people know because of the possibility that this would happen. So anyway, the young lesbian woman, a few months later, I don't want to go into every single detail because it would take hours and hours. The young lesbian woman, she was pregnant, and she committed suicide in her own room, and she hung herself. And I discovered her because we were friends. They had the females on one side, and the males on the other. [00:07:20] Jimmy Flowers: And I was the one that found her, and I will never forget that. Then there was a gay, we started a hunger strike in the mental institution, which was called Primory and King's Park State Hospital. And then there was another one called King's County. And during that time, there was this gay psychiatrist and gay therapist that was helping us getting out of the place. Of course, we had to lie and say we were straight, and that we enjoyed having sex with women, and the women enjoyed having sex with men. [00:08:06] Jimmy Flowers: And I promised myself, once I get out of that place, that I would never lie again. And I haven't lied since then, and I'm not going to now, and I never will until the day I die. Let's go ahead and cut there for a second. After I got out, it was about 1968. Did you go back to your parents? Yes, I went back to my family. And things were still, I had to pretend that I had a girlfriend, and then went to high school. During that time I was put away, I didn't have no school at all. And then I was kicked out of high school for trying to start a gay movement. [00:08:52] Jimmy Flowers: And that was back in 69, but we didn't call it a gay movement, we called it the Pansy Movement. Now I can laugh at it, but then it was serious. Was that in Brooklyn? No, at that time we lived in the Bronx, Bronx, New York. Then my mother and father, they found out I was still gay, they kicked me out 2 �of the house. I was about 14 and a half years old, or 14 or 14 and a half. I roamed the streets, lived from one person to the next. [00:09:25] Jimmy Flowers: And then there was hundreds, literally hundreds of young lesbians and young gay men that was actually kicked out of the streets for being gay. Because their family couldn't deal with it. And, um... [00:09:43] Jimmy Flowers: Then there was Spanish in society, and they wanted us to be good little boys and girls and not to kiss in public or to hold hands in public. They were using the word flaunting our gayness. And then we were all young. There was lesbians, there was gay blacks, there was gay Puerto Ricans, there was gay religious lesbians from all walks of life that was kicked out in the streets because of being gay. [00:10:17] Julie Trainum: It's a real diverse crowd out there. Real diverse. [00:10:21] Jimmy Flowers: Yes. The young gay blacks was considered a disgrace to their race if they were gay. A lesbian woman wasn't a real woman. They used slogans like, oh, what you need is a good man. And they used to use the word revise to the gay men that what you really need was a good woman. And we used to sock it back to them. I said, no. What you need is a good woman, and what we need is a good man. And so one guy, I remember one guy would say, you're not a real man. I said, how do you know? I said, did you have one? Of course, I'm a man's man. [00:11:10] Jimmy Flowers: And so therefore, if you haven't had a man, then you're not a man. And the lesbians used to sock it to them on their level too. Well, you're not a real woman until you have a woman, you know. [00:11:24] Julie Trainum: So a lot of the young people who were kind of on the street had to make up their own philosophy of living. [00:11:31] Jimmy Flowers: Right. [00:11:31] Julie Trainum: And philosophy of being gay and what that felt like. [00:11:34] Jimmy Flowers: Right. I'm not ashamed of it. I had to do some hustling to be able to hustle, and I was a go-go boy at the Stonewall. [00:11:45] Julie Trainum: What does that mean, go-go boy? [00:11:47] Jimmy Flowers: A go-go boy dancer. I should have brought my uniform, but they called me the gay midnight cowboy. That was part of my act. I had a black cowboy hat, purple shirt with white fringes, purple hot pants with silver sequins and cowboy boots. And of course, I was on the platform, and that's how I made to put food in my stomach. And at that time, I had to hustle because who was going to give a 14-and-ahalf-year-old person, young person, a full-time job or housing? And a lot of young lesbians and young gays had to do that. [00:12:26] Jimmy Flowers: But we protected each other, and we stood in a group. And we also protected the old ones that were taking us in, and we were not abused. We were not forced to have sex with them. As a matter of fact, there used to be a joke about me because I felt guilty for taking money for sex. So while they were sleeping, I used to get out and clean their apartments. So there used to be a joke going around saying, take the redhead because you get two for the price of one. Then came the raids of the bars constantly. Now we're getting into 69. [00:13:13] Julie Trainum: And this is in Brooklyn? [00:13:15] Jimmy Flowers: No, Manhattan. Greenwich Village. Then we started arguing with the police. There were entrapments of police undercover. There were police officers undercover taking license plates, numbers of cars that was in the neighborhood because they presumed that everybody in that section of the neighborhood were all gay, all lesbians. They were raiding the lesbian bars constantly, and the gay bars. We wasn't allowed to hold hands in our own bars. We wasn't allowed to sit close together, more than 12 feet. [00:13:56] Jimmy Flowers: And plainclothes cops used to come in and make sure that we did not do these things or slow dance together. There was also the gay rich was being blackmailed by plainclothes cops. 3 �[00:14:12] Julie Trainum: The gay, say that again. [00:14:12] Jimmy Flowers: The gay rich. [00:14:14] Julie Trainum: Okay. [00:14:14] Jimmy Flowers: Because they had money. [00:14:16] Julie Trainum: I see. [00:14:16] Jimmy Flowers: And if they were caught in the section and the plainclothes cops caught them in that area, they just assumed that they were automatically gay and they would call up their boss and tell him that they were gay and they wouldn't have a job, they'd be fired. [00:14:29] Julie Trainum: I see. [00:14:29] Jimmy Flowers: And then at that time, there was lesbians that were beaten up, gay men that was found in the Hudson River that was dead. With their thing cut off, found in the Hudson River. And then at that time, we had signs on the bars that said, enter in your own grips, you may be arrested. Some lesbians was raped by male undercover cops. [00:14:58] Jimmy Flowers: Years later, we found out those license plates that they had, which was over 100,000 license plates they had, was going to the FBI. What license plates were those? Lesbians and gays and people that was parked in the Greenwich Village area. [00:15:17] Julie Trainum: Okay, so they would take that information, the cars parked in the village area and send it to the FBI? Right. [00:15:24] Jimmy Flowers: At that time, that's what they did, and they called it a scare tactic. [00:15:30] Julie Trainum: Scare tactic. [00:15:31] Jimmy Flowers: Yes, to keep gays and lesbians away from getting together and uniting. [00:15:39] Julie Trainum: Okay. [00:15:39] Jimmy Flowers: At that time, we started having arguments with Mattachine Society. [00:15:46] Julie Trainum: Tell us a little bit about what that organization is. [00:15:49] Jimmy Flowers: Well, Mattachine Society started after World War II, about 1945, and they did a lot of things. They did help out a lot of people through courts, and they helped try to get a gay rights bill passed, a lesbian gay rights bill passed, secretly behind the scenes. [00:16:12] Julie Trainum: Okay. [00:16:12] Jimmy Flowers: They believed and dressed in ties and suits, and women, lesbian women, had to wear high heels and dresses and be very conservative. [00:16:24] Julie Trainum: What was their theory behind this dress and doing things behind the scenes? [00:16:28] Jimmy Flowers: Well, their theory figured that not let the public, the religious groups, or the straight community know what was going on in the world. They wanted to try to pass the bill of rights for lesbians and gays secretly behind the scenes, behind the doors. [00:16:49] Julie Trainum: So as to not make waves? [00:16:51] Jimmy Flowers: Right, not to make waves, and Mattachine Society were the older people at that time. Remember, the ones that lived on the streets, the homeless, lesbians and gays, and young gays, we were all young, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 years of age, 19, 20, some was even 13, and the youngest was 12 and a half years old, believe it or not. And then the older ones that was part of Mattachine, they were in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 4 �and 60s, and they used to come out at us for holding hands in public. Don't do that, the cops will get you arrested. [00:17:40] Julie Trainum: Okay, so that was the beginning of some of those arguments you were saying? [00:17:43] Jimmy Flowers: Yes. [00:17:43] Julie Trainum: So they did not like the fact that you were much more out in your appearance? [00:17:49] Julie Trainum: Okay. [00:17:49] Jimmy Flowers: They said you ruined everything that we were trying to accomplish, and we turned around and we said, well, this is 1969, and you've had since 1945 to do something, and it's time for a change, and the change is now. Well, the cops came and raided the Stonewall, and 200 of us took to the streets. Yes, there was drag queens there, there was lesbians, there was gay blacks, gay Puerto Ricans, but we were not all drag queens, let me just make that very clear. We were from all walks of life, all colors. [00:18:29] Julie Trainum: Has that been something that they've tried to state over and over, that it was just the drag queens that rioted? [00:18:36] Jimmy Flowers: Yes. [00:18:37] Julie Trainum: Okay. [00:18:37] Jimmy Flowers: Even, I got to admit, even the gay press keeps on saying drag queens. It just didn't happen like that. What has happened to be to Stonewall was incidents of the raiding of bars, being put away for being gay, entrapments, license plates being taken, beating up of lesbians and gays, dead bodies of gay males being found in the Hudson River, harassment, blackmail of the gay rich because they paid off the cops because they were afraid to lose their jobs. Lesbians were being raped by plainclothes cops, beaten up, and they were forced to fight back. [00:19:25] Julie Trainum: So people, in a sense, have had their fill of the harassment and the hatred, so that when that particular bar was raided... [00:19:35] Jimmy Flowers: It wasn't just that particular bar. [00:19:37] Julie Trainum: Was it not? [00:19:38] Jimmy Flowers: It started... See, all the bars in that area was being raided like every weekend. [00:19:44] Julie Trainum: Okay. [00:19:44] Jimmy Flowers: But, the Stonewall, we're the ones that came out of the Stonewall and we said, enough is enough, we're going to take the streets now. [00:19:57] Julie Trainum: Okay. [00:19:58] Jimmy Flowers: And that was the word gay. And we started using the word gay. A lot of people, even some of the gay people themselves, don't like to use the word gay. They don't use the word homosexual. Well, we name ourselves gay. [00:20:13] Jimmy Flowers: Homosexuality, faggot, queer, fruit, homo, pansy, bull dyke, lesbian, all those names were labeled on us by society. The word gay, we took as being proud. And the word lesbian, as proud as being a lesbian woman. So then, then we start taking into the streets. And we started turning over police cars and we started dancing in the streets and we started yelling out gay rights now. And I remember this big black guy, about six foot four, something like that, kicked up a paddy wagon and turned it over. [00:20:59] Jimmy Flowers: And three lesbians pulled over the paddy wagons and the best fighters, I gotta admit, was the drag queens and the lesbians. And, but people like me too was there too. We were, I was the one that was underneath the paddy wagon as they were pulling the gays and lesbians into the paddy wagon, I was underneath the paddy wagon punching the cops between the legs. And then as they were going out, the lesbians, 5 �gays were running out of the paddy wagons. Jim, you were back there when I was a little girl. Well, you know, at that time, you did what you had to do. [00:21:41] Jimmy Flowers: And about how old were you at the time then? I was about 14 and a half years old, 15 years old. And there were some other gay youth there as well? And that's that one thing we all had in common. We were all young and we were all gay and lesbians. Let's stop there for just a second, okay? Yeah, all right. [00:22:03] Jimmy Flowers: As I was saying before, when they were dragging in the lesbians and gays, I was underneath the paddy wagon punching below the belt of the police officers and the lesbians and gays would run out of the paddy wagon while the cops were going out, you know? Okay, great. And then we started marching in the streets, yelling out gay rights now and this and that. And they would throw gas bombs at us and we had handkerchiefs we wrapped around our faces and we threw it back at the cops. And we was turning over the paddy wagon to the police cars. [00:22:44] Jimmy Flowers: We marched to the 10th precinct, which was the Greenwich Village Police Station. And we marched around there, started singing We Shall Overcome. And then we started marching towards out of the gay ghetto. And that's when everything started beginning. We started marching up 6th Avenue. They knew that we was gonna be on 5th Avenue to St. Patrick's because see, on 5th Avenue was St. Patrick's Cathedral and sinners of God wasn't allowed to be on 5th Avenue. [00:23:16] Julie Trainum: Bless you. [00:23:18] Jimmy Flowers: And so anyway, we started marching on 6th Avenue but we had a plan. And we all ran arm to arm, black, white, young and old. Some of us, most of us was young. And we started doing the can-can. And as we started kicking the lesbians and gays, drag queens, blacks and whites, and yes, even some atheists and Christians, we started doing the can-can and started saying gay rights now, lesbian power now. And as we kicked, the police officers backed away. They took one step back and then we started taking advantage of it. Each night, the crowd grew larger. [00:24:08] Jimmy Flowers: And as we was doing the can-can down the street of 6th Avenue, the cops, they have never faced this situation before. They were scared to death of us. That night, the crowds grew to about 1,000. And we started rowing. And then when we got to 45th Street, cut off on to 5th Avenue, the cops had the barricade of police cars and the lesbians and the gay men and the drag queens and the transvestites. And we just pushed the cars off the streets and just pushed them onto the sidewalks. And then we went right on to 5th Avenue and we started marching up. [00:25:00] Jimmy Flowers: Then they had another barricade. And then we started marching towards St. Patrick's. And as we was doing the kicking in the air and singing all sorts of things, and unite, we stand, fight back now, the cops were backing up and backing up and the crowd just grew larger and larger. [00:25:24] Jimmy Flowers: That night was 1,000 and we started holding hands and marching around St. Patrick's Day, and we started singing We Shall Overcome, and we did it all night long. And then people started saying that homosexuals is taking over the country. There was headlines in the newspapers and everything, it was on the news, and then we started protesting at City Hall. The first protest at City Hall was 1970 for the gay rights. Only 40 people showed up at that time. As the year went by, the crowd at City Hall grew larger and larger and larger. [00:26:17] Jimmy Flowers: The gay and lesbian community started uniting. At one point around 1973, the politicians and the religious groups, the Orthodox Jewish community and the Catholics saying, well there's really nothing about lesbians in the Bible, it's okay to be a lesbian. And what they were trying to do is split us apart and to make us weak, because unity there is strength. So I say to the young ones today, don't let politicians or anybody split y'all up because of politics, because we are in it together and there must be unity. [00:27:06] Jimmy Flowers: Then we started marching towards politicians and we started having sit-ins and we started having sit-ins to go into the City Hall chambers and about 100 of us or 200 of us, and we started singing We Shall Overcome each and every time there was a lesbian gay rights hearing. And then we started having the Lesbian Gay Parade, which was 1970. The very first one was 1970, and we marched from Greenwich Village to Central Park, which by the way was only 9,000 people. Excellent about that. [00:27:48] Julie Trainum: Has there been one every year then? 6 �[00:27:50] Jimmy Flowers: Yes, every one, and last year, the 25th anniversary, lesbians gays from all over the world came. There was people from Switzerland, lesbians and gays from Russia, there was lesbians and gays from Puerto Rico, from Cuba, there was lesbians and gays from Texas and Oklahoma, there was lesbians and gays from Kansas City, Philadelphia, you name it, they were all there. Gays and lesbians from Alaska. [00:28:28] Julie Trainum: How many do you think, in your opinion, were actually in attendance? [00:28:32] Jimmy Flowers: Well, later on when you see the pictures up close. The newspaper says 100,000, but the newspapers always lie when it comes to lesbians and gays marching in the streets. I estimate there was close to one million lesbians and gays, and parents of gays, and friends of gays, and lesbians and gays themselves from all walks of life, from all over the world, was marching because we had three avenues. [00:29:02] Jimmy Flowers: Excuse me, I think it's important at this point to recognize that Jimmy was honored as one of the 15 only survivors from the original Stonewall Uprising, and he was honored this past year during the 20th anniversary as one of those 15,... Oklahoma in that. [00:29:25] Julie Trainum: How many Oklahomans were also in that group? Were you the only one? [00:29:31] Jimmy Flowers: I was the only one. [00:29:33] Julie Trainum: Well, we're proud of you. Let's go ahead at this point and... [00:29:36] Jimmy Flowers: But I wasn't born in Oklahoma. [00:29:38] Julie Trainum: I understand, but we have you now. We'll go ahead and stop the film for a second so that we can get up and take a look. And what we're going to do right now is take a look at some of the mementos that Jimmy has brought. We have an array of t-shirts here, and we're going to listen a little bit about what each one... [00:29:56] Julie Trainum: Where each one came from and so on and anything else that Jimmy can tell us about it. So you want to start over there with the Lambda? [00:30:04] Jimmy Flowers: Okay. The Lambda was the first gay t-shirt that lesbians and gays wore as a symbol of lesbian gay power. There was a little bit of confusion about the Lambda bit because it stood for gay males, but there was a little confusion about that too as well. [00:30:23] Julie Trainum: Okay. [00:30:24] Jimmy Flowers: So this was the first lesbian gay t-shirt even though there was some confusion. This one here was about Reagan's time where two guys and we took his slogan and we said breathe my lips and there's two guys kissing. Also we started using slogans like cruise men not missiles. Then there was the gay independent democrats. We started registering people to vote and I have myself registered in New York City over 10,000 lesbians and gay voters, all democrats. [00:31:03] Julie Trainum: So you helped to get people signed up to register to vote? [00:31:05] Jimmy Flowers: Oh yes I did. [00:31:06] Julie Trainum: Excellent. [00:31:07] Julie Trainum: Okay. [00:31:08] Jimmy Flowers: This is the t-shirt of the coalition. This was the original lesbian gay flag which I designed it and a lesbian woman made the flag. [00:31:20] Julie Trainum: Cool. [00:31:21] Jimmy Flowers: It was June 1st, 1976. That was the symbol, the first original lesbian gay flag. It stands for unity. This here was the first march on Washington D.C. national wise. There was other marches besides that. There was Madison Society had a group in 1966 marching in front of the White House, but this 7 �was the first national march on Washington with Harvey Milk's name. Then later on, this picture here of me, 1976, I had a t-shirt that said I'm a gay American. And that there came out in one of the gay newspapers. [00:32:10] Julie Trainum: Great. [00:32:11] Jimmy Flowers: This here, later on, there was words mixed up so we started using, we realized that some lesbians wanted to be called lesbians and some wanted to be called gay. So to make everybody happy, we decided to use the word gay and lesbian independent democrats. [00:32:31] Julie Trainum: Great. [00:32:33] Jimmy Flowers: And then here was the first picture of the first protest march at City Hall in 1970. Then comes the American Cypriot Union book around 1975. Then I got a letter from the White House, from Jimmy Carter, from the assistants. And then around 1980, I had a discrimination case against Victor Gonthown, DC-37 in New York, which sexual orientation was passed on AFCIO Union, which they took my case on, which I'm very proud of that. [00:33:18] Julie Trainum: Okay, let me just get kind of a pan shot of some of these things and a view of all the goodies that we have. [00:33:24] Jimmy Flowers: Well, this one, this one here was taken in 1976, I'm a gay American. This one here with the lesbian gay flag, the original one, in front of St. Patrick's Day, saying that we are children of God too. This one here was the first print of the original lesbian gay flag which stands for unity. [00:33:53] Julie Trainum: I like that theme a lot. I like that theme. [00:33:57] Jimmy Flowers: Then here's a pamphlet that we tried to pass in New York City. I was kicked out of a restaurant for wearing a gay t-shirt and they took my case to the human rights, which I won the first gay case in human rights back in 1978. And finally won on paper. [00:34:26] Julie Trainum: Can you tell us a little bit about the Stonewall sash that you're wearing? [00:34:31] Jimmy Flowers: Well, around 1979, Ed Murphy, one of the people in Stonewall, he was a door bouncer at the Stonewall, gave all of these banners to all the Stonewall people that was there. And I've had it since 19... [00:34:49] Jimmy Flowers: 78 something. It was purple and gold, but now it's turning into pink and gold. [00:35:04] Julie Trainum: Tell us a little about your hat. [00:35:05] Jimmy Flowers: Well, my hat has got all the buttons on it about AIDS, be safe, about lesbian and gay rights, civil rights. I'll have a talk and take it off and show you. Boycott homophobia, remember the quilt, silent equals death, stop AIDS, fight back, act up. This is the newest one, Stonewall 25, keep on marching. This symbol of AIDS awareness and over here it says gay rights are civil rights. [00:35:50] Julie Trainum: I love that one. Okay, we need to go ahead and end up this portion. [00:35:55] Jimmy Flowers: Okay. [00:35:56] Julie Trainum: And so what I will do real quick is to, these are pictures of the 25th anniversary of Stonewall. [00:36:03] Jimmy Flowers: Right here. [00:36:04] Julie Trainum: That we're taking in June of this year and some fabulous buttons. [00:36:07] Jimmy Flowers: This one here is I Am All of Us, Harvey Milk. That was printed in 1979. This one here was the first gay button and this was the second one, 1970 and 1970. And then all the other buttons came afterwards. And then we even had a button, boyfriend wanted no experience necessary. Homophobia is a social disease. Then we had this Harvey Milk riot which I will explain later what really happened on that day. 8 �And then we had the pink triangle which gays and lesbians were forced to wear during World War II as in the prisons. [00:36:58] Jimmy Flowers: The gay Jewish, I don't have here a button, but if you was gay and Jewish you wore a yellow and pink star. This one here to sign to the born again Christians. [00:37:10] Julie Trainum: Born again gay. [00:37:11] Jimmy Flowers: Born again gay. [00:37:12] Julie Trainum: Very nice. [00:37:12] Jimmy Flowers: And then there's the teddy bear here with the symbol of the male symbol of gay men. And then we have here of a cat with the lesbian symbol here on the cat. And then we had over here the pink triangle, fight for lesbian gay liberation. And then there was Gay Teachers Unite which came out about 1972. [00:37:38] Julie Trainum: Wow, that's great. We're going to go ahead and end up today's segment. And in a few days we'll get back together and take another look at the remaining memorabilia and finish up Jimmy's story. Hi Jimmy, this is December the 19th and we're back to complete hopefully our session on some of the gay history that you're very familiar with. I think we left off beginning to talk about Stonewall 25 that happened here just last June of 1994. Go ahead if you would and give us your view of what happened last June and what you saw and just go from there. [00:38:19] Jimmy Flowers: Well, number one, it was really beautiful. I found the George Segal statue was put up in the park which was two women and two men holding an armed arm in the park. [00:38:33] Julie Trainum: Was he the sculptor? [00:38:34] Jimmy Flowers: He was George Segal, yeah. It went through the United States and then ended up at Sheridan Square which is in Greenwich Village. And I was part of that. A lot of people was at that time in 1977 when they built the statues of two men and two women holding hands in the park. The Italians got upset and the religious right got upset. Left? [00:39:07] Julie Trainum: Right. [00:39:07] Jimmy Flowers: Right. And they got upset all about the statues. But all there is is that two women is holding arm to arm sitting on the park bench and two guys standing up holding each other with love. Well, I was glad to see that because I collected over 15,000 signatures for those statues. Wow. But I wasn't the only one. Let me put that very clear. I wasn't the only person that was doing it. [00:39:40] Julie Trainum: When did you do this project? [00:39:42] Jimmy Flowers: This was 1977-78. [00:39:44] Julie Trainum: And so you now saw them in the... [00:39:47] Jimmy Flowers: I saw them in the park at Sheridan Square which I was very proud of. [00:39:51] Jimmy Flowers: Finally they got it there. [00:39:54] Jimmy Flowers: Through court battles. They called it freedom of speech. When you show affection towards the same sex. So we used the expression freedom of speech. [00:40:06] Jimmy Flowers: Also, on the day of the parade, which was beautiful, they took up 5th Avenue, 6th Avenue, and also 1st Avenue from the United Nations building. From the United Nations building, there was lesbians and gays from all over the world. From Japan, from China, from Russia, from Italy, from Oklahoma, Texas, Ohio, Philadelphia, California, Boston, Connecticut, Africa. There was lesbians and gays from Switzerland, Italy, you name it, they were there. [00:40:51] Julie Trainum: Sounds like that was the place to get a pen pal. 9 �[00:40:53] Jimmy Flowers: It was beautiful. And the Stonewall led the whole parade, all 18 of us, that was led from the original Stonewall veterans, they called us. I didn't know I was a veteran until the 25th. But, also, from all over the world, over 25,000 ACT UP members marched up 5th Avenue, in front of St. Patrick's Metro, and passed there. And they assembled there, and they started singing, We Shall Overcome. And, of course, then they started marching again. [00:41:31] Jimmy Flowers: On 6th Avenue, over 66,000 lesbians from all over the country, in the United States, and parts of the other world, marched up 6th Avenue to Central Park. We arrived at the park about approximately 11.30am. At 6.30pm, they were still coming into the park, and the parade has not ended. The parade ended coming into the park around 9pm. So, the newspapers always lie about how many numbers there is, especially when it comes to lesbians and gays marching. The newspaper says 100,000, but that's in the pig's eye. It's a lie. [00:42:24] Jimmy Flowers: So, anyway, I, X-Men, and so did a lot of lesbians and gays that was there. XMen, there was 1 million lesbians and gays. We also had straights and gays, women for gay rights, we had parents for gay rights, we had grandmothers marching for gay rights. We had a few members from Mattachine Society that was in it for 36 years, marched too as well. There was about 5 people, I remember, from Mattachine, and they were carrying a sign, 36 years, of 2 women and 1 gay man. That was, as I can remember, from Mattachine Society that was marching. [00:43:16] Julie Trainum: So, that's 36 years of trying to fight for gay rights? [00:43:19] Jimmy Flowers: Oh, that's for gay rights. Okay. From up to last year. Okay. But, there was other gay movements before then. In 1920, Oscar Wilde in England, the case of Oscar Wilde, which by the way, the gay rights bill over there was passed about 45, 40 years ago. And, of course, I can turn around to the religious groups and tell them that see, England did not fall apart. And, the reason, one of the reasons why Queen Elizabeth I, there was no law against lesbianism, but there was laws against gay men. [00:44:06] Jimmy Flowers: Because Queen Elizabeth I believed that women don't do such things. So, therefore, there was no law against being a lesbian, only against being a gay male. Because men do do those types of things. Right. Okay. That's what they said. And, we all know that's a lie. Also, going back, now we're going to go back to 1970, 73. [00:44:37] Julie Trainum: Okay. [00:44:37] Jimmy Flowers: 1970 was the Gay Activist Alliance. After we did the Stonewall, we started realizing we must stop fighting in the streets. And, start protesting peacefully and ordinarily matter. [00:44:48] Jimmy Flowers: We did, sometimes we had kiss-ins, holding hands, walking the streets, but by groups. Sometimes two or three hundred would have a kiss-in on the steps of St. Patrick's or on the steps of City Hall to show the public that here we are, we're not going to hide our affection, our love, and our tenderness to be towards each other. Because, see, gay is not just sex, as most people think that it is. Being a lesbian or being gay is not sex, it's the way of life, it's the way of love, it's the way you were born, it's the way you are. [00:45:31] Jimmy Flowers: And we are human beings and children of God just as well as anybody else. There's been Michelangelo that was gay, Jonathan and David, Einstein, and I can go down the list, which will take hours. [00:45:44] Julie Trainum: One of my favorite posters, have you seen it, is depicting all of the people, so many of the people, down through history. And it's just crowded with faces, it's really nice to see. [00:45:59] Jimmy Flowers: I love that poster. [00:45:59] Julie Trainum: Creative, talented. Very much so. [00:46:02] Jimmy Flowers: And also there was Jim Levin, Jim Levin was the gay lawyer who went around mostly towards me because I always seemed to get into trouble. Mostly because of the mouth. Not that I just stood up for what I believed in, but I got my first job in 1971 as a construction worker working on highways cleaning. And the other guys, they had black power on their helmet, kiss me I'm Italian, kiss me I'm Italian. So what I did on my hard hat, helmet, is put gay power on my helmet. 10 �[00:46:43] Jimmy Flowers: But that was totally a different story when it came to the union, D.C. 37, Victor Garfield. And then they tried to make separate bathrooms. A gay men's bathroom and a gay straight men's bathroom. And I fought that because to me that's discrimination, that's like a war fountain for whites and a war fountain for blacks. And to me that is discrimination. So anyway, also in their locker rooms, in their lockers, they had pictures of nude women. So what I did, to be myself, I put up a picture of a nude man on my locker inside my locker. [00:47:28] Jimmy Flowers: And of course that was totally a different story. At that time I had a boyfriend I was going to study with for two years. And their wives and their girlfriends came and picked up the guys from work and they hugged and kissed. You know, hello. So my boyfriend came up and we hugged and he kissed me. And brother, let me tell you, hell just broke loose. So they tried to fire me. And I went to the human rights, filed a complaint, went to D.C. 37 and filed a complaint with Victor Garfield to hit the union. The big cheese there. [00:48:13] Jimmy Flowers: And he says, we're going too far for lesbian gay rights. I said, what do you mean too far? We just want equal rights just like anybody else. And he says, well you're just going too far. And I said, no we're not. So Jim Levin was my lawyer again after a couple of cases I had. Because every time I hear or see something wrong I speak up. Then came the gay rights bill. Mostly that got me into a lot of trouble. Because I always speak up when I see or hear something wrong. Then came 1973, I believe. [00:48:55] Jimmy Flowers: The mental psychiatrists and therapists from all over the country came to New York and they were having a conference. And their discussion was, what are we going to do about these homosexuals in America? And at that time, the gay movement was just beginning to get on its high pit. [00:49:18] Julie Trainum: So it wasn't what can we do for the gay community, it was what are we going to do about? [00:49:22] Jimmy Flowers: About. About, alright. About the homosexuals in America. Mostly, they were concerned mostly of gay males. Don't ask me why, that's the way they did it. So we had a plan to have lesbians and gays to march together outside of the conference building. Which was held on 34th Street, Madison Square Garden. [00:49:49] Jimmy Flowers: And we, as we were protesting outside, about five to six hundred lesbians and gay therapists and psychiatrists came out of the closet at that time, at the conference, and the rest of the people that were inside, the so-called straight people, the heads that were saying what we were going to do about these homosexuals in America, that they're going too far, and that there decided, when they came out, psychiatrists and therapists came out, which shocked the living heck out of them, they decided then and there that it was not an illness, it was not a sickness. [00:50:38] Jimmy Flowers: This, I believe, was back in 1973. I'm not exactly sure on the exact date, but it's about there. So mental illness is not social disease or mental disease or mental order or anything like that, what they thought in the old days. And we're surely not sinners of God, we're children of God as well as anybody else. And also, and then we started protesting the city council people. The first one was 1970, with 30 people. Each year, the crowd grew bigger and bigger. [00:51:21] Julie Trainum: What types of issues did you bring before the council? [00:51:23] Jimmy Flowers: Equal rights in housing, jobs, unemployment, public accommodations, and we tried to put in marriages, lesbian and gay marriages, but that didn't go through. But we got jobs, housing, public accommodations in those orders. [00:51:44] Julie Trainum: How long did that take? That took from 1970 to 1986. [00:51:46] Jimmy Flowers: And that's in New York City? [00:51:53] Julie Trainum: That's in New York City. [00:51:55] Jimmy Flowers: And each year, the protests marched because we kept on insisting. So every six months, we were at City Hall protesting, and each time, the crowd grew larger and larger and larger. In 1986, we started registering, around 1980, we started registering lesbians and gays. We went to the bars, we went to the bathhouses, we went to the backroom bars, we went to the piers, we went wherever lesbians and gays went, we went there. 11 �[00:52:27] Julie Trainum: Registering at the bar? [00:52:29] Jimmy Flowers: Yes. And I, myself, registered over 10,000 lesbians and gays through the bars, through the backrooms, through the lesbian bars. And by the way, I was the first gay male to enter a lesbian and gay bar. Because at that time, lesbians wanted to keep to themselves because a lot of straight guys used to come in and harass them all the time, and it was a lot of trouble. [00:52:57] Jimmy Flowers: So Betty Santora, Eleanor Cooper, they were part of the group, and they said, Look, he's here trying to get signatures and register people to vote, and he's here for your cause as well as for ours. We're supposed to be together and be united. So I was the first male that ever went to a lesbian bar. [00:53:18] Julie Trainum: How'd that feel? [00:53:19] Jimmy Flowers: I felt terrific. You know, most likely, I got along with lesbians better than I did with gay males. I don't know why, but it just happens. There was a joke going around about me, that I was a lesbian trapped in a gay man's body. [00:53:37] Julie Trainum: Did you find that a compliment or not a compliment? [00:53:42] Jimmy Flowers: Well, at the time, I felt both. It was a compliment and it was an insult. But now I think it's a compliment. Then around 19, we started protesting the White House. 1971, we started putting paths. About 100 of us started marching to Washington on foot. [00:54:13] Julie Trainum: You thought you would tell Mr. Nixon a thing or two? [00:54:15] Jimmy Flowers: We thought we would, yeah. [00:54:16] Julie Trainum: How'd that go? [00:54:18] Jimmy Flowers: Well, as we passed each state, the crowd grew larger and larger. When we got to Washington, D.C., finally, it took about almost a week or so. We had rain and everything, and through the sun and everything. And people, as we were walking, with signs and paths on them, the crowd grew to 1,000. [00:54:43] Jimmy Flowers: from 100 from New York and then as we went to Washington they grew to 1,000. But I also got to say, too, there was other protest march back in 1966 by a group of about 25 to 30 lesbians and gay males from Mattachine Society. It wasn't the first march, but it wasn't a national march. The first national march on Washington from the country, the United States, was 1979, then again 1987, and then 1990, a few years later. [00:55:29] Julie Trainum: Early 90s. [00:55:30] Jimmy Flowers: Early 90s. [00:55:31] Julie Trainum: Sure. [00:55:33] Jimmy Flowers: The first one was sensational. We had the first march on Washington was over 500,000 lesbians and gays. The second one was over 50,000 lesbians and gays. Then they estimate the last one that we had was close to over a million lesbians and gays in Washington, even though the newspaper says 50,000 marched. Some said 40,000. Some of the media said 30,000, but if you saw the march yourself and you saw the crowd, you would know that there was five times more than that. [00:56:17] Julie Trainum: I was there. There was a million, believe me. [00:56:19] Julie Trainum: Have you been seeing more gay young people in the marches and parades? Jimmy, did you want to go ahead and continue with what was happening there in the late 70s and 80s? [00:56:31] Jimmy Flowers: Well, around 1976, Anita Bryant started a campaign against lesbians and gay rights, not only in one state in Florida, which passed an anti-gay lesbian rights bill, but then she started campaigning throughout the country. A lot of lesbians and gays, even movie stars and actors, got upset with her because most of her people that was working with her were gay people. That's number one. Number two, she 12 �was actually slapping people in the face that we wasn't human, we wasn't children of God, and we wasn't Americans and everything like that. [00:57:14] Jimmy Flowers: She was trying to get the religious groups to come out and say we are not. But I must say, and I also was one of the people that threw a fruit pie in her face. I was upset, I was angry, and I am American, a gay one, I'm proud of it. The Constitution of the United States says we the people, not we the blacks, not we the straights, not we the women, not we the lesbians and gays, but we the people. And even politicians forget what the Constitution says. And we have to remember that, that we are the people as well. [00:58:00] Jimmy Flowers: And we are just as human beings as anybody else. Because if you cut my wrist, I will bleed red blood just like anyone else. And I also believe that I was born gay, not made. Also, I would like to say that to black youth of America, that be proud of being gay. Don't be ashamed. Because in the 70s, if you was gay and black, their own race said that they were a disgrace to their race because they were black. But that's not true. Be proud to be gay, be proud to be black, and be proud to be Christian and gay or lesbians. [00:58:45] Jimmy Flowers: We must stand in unity and don't let politicians or religion try to split us up. Like, for instance, at City Hall, and I also heard it here at City Hall in Oklahoma, that, oh well, there's nothing against lesbians in the Bible. But they also forget Joan of Arc was burned to the stake because she was a lesbian. And they also forget about that, that's the Roman Catholics. There's a lot of things that in the Bible you can also prove. [00:59:19] Jimmy Flowers: If you put 20 people in the room, and each one of them read the Bible, you will find you get 20 different opinions of what the Bible says. So therefore, should we put a woman down because she's wearing a red dress? That's in the Bible. You know, they said, thy shall not kill. But yet, the Orthodox Jewish people, back in 1986, asked for the death penalty for being gay. Even the gay community, the Jewish gay community, got upset. And all, at the same time, in City Hall, we all stood up. [01:00:01] Jimmy Flowers: Black gays, Jewish gays, Christian gays, gay atheists, we all stood up and we yelled out, Hai Hitler to them. [01:00:10] Jimmy Flowers: That was the most insulting thing to them. They all got up, all the Orthodox Jewish community walked up and out of City Hall. And we applauded and we yelled out hallelujah, you know. [01:00:25] Julie Trainum: What are some of the things that you see that divide the gay community? [01:00:30] Jimmy Flowers: Well, number one, the money bed should not divide the community. The poor, middle class, and the rich. We must work together. Young, old, woman, man, black, and white. There must be unity. Because in numbers there is strength. Martin Luther King said one thing, In unity we have strength, divided we will fall. That's what Martin Luther King said. And we have to remember those words. Because so far what I have seen, we are divided now. But we have to start getting together. [01:01:12] Jimmy Flowers: Because sometimes I feel like I'm reliving the 70s and the 80s all over again right here in Oklahoma. I say to the youth of America, stand up, be proud, and don't let people push you down because you're simply a lesbian or gay or bisexual. Be proud of what you are. Because it's not just sex, it's a wave of life, and it's a wave of human sexuality. I believe that if human sexuality is taught at an early age, you will not have all this hang up about sex, about divorce, about women and men, about gay and lesbians and bisexuality. [01:02:00] Jimmy Flowers: I don't feel that there will be so much uptightness if people and children are taught at an early age about human sexuality and let them be themselves as they grow up. But be taught the right way. Some of us, we learned the hard way. And I must say, we may have all different ways of doing things, we may have all different ideas, we may have all different faiths. But when we step outside and protest peacefully, hand in hand, number one, we must be in unity and we must be in numbers. That's 65 people marching. [01:02:50] Jimmy Flowers: Because politicians, when they look out that window, they say, oh it's only 65, because they're thinking of voters. But if they see 200, 300, 5,000, or 10,000, or even 1 million people out there, they're going to wake up and they say, oh, voters, we better shape up or we're going to get shipped out. So therefore, I say, register the vote when you're 18. Put your money where your mouth is and tell it like it is. Go out there and be peaceful. March peaceful. Have kiss-ins, because there's no law against kissing of the same sex. 13 �[01:03:34] Jimmy Flowers: There is no law against people of two women holding hands, or two men holding hands. So we can easily have kiss-ins, walk hand in hand, surrounding city hall, singing We Shall Overcome. That would get them more anything. They would wake up. That's what we should be doing. And also to educate society that we're here to stay and we're not going away. Lesbians and gays have been here for the longest time. And since the time began, we're going to be here now, until the end of time. [01:04:13] Julie Trainum: Because gay young people, and actually any young person, has a whole lot more to face these days than we did 20 years ago or so, what types of messages would you give kids today when they look at their health and safety? [01:04:29] Jimmy Flowers: Well, number one, be safe. Use condoms. There's different ways of making love without sexual intercourse. That goes for male or female. There's touching, there's feeling, there's holding, there's caressing. There's more ways of making love without intercourse. And if you do have it, get a checkup. Play safe. Use condoms. Or don't use condoms, but be safe with sass. And have checkups. That's what I would say to the youth of America. [01:05:07] Jimmy Flowers: to play safe and also tell the government there must be a cure of AIDS now. Not tomorrow, not ten years from now, but now. Over 40 or 50 million people throughout the world have AIDS. And every day the numbers are growing and growing. And mostly now the young heterosexual community are getting them. And we have to reach out towards them. But just because you're HIV does not make you less of a woman, just because you're HIV does not make you less of a man, or gay, or straight, or black, or white. Be proud of those issues. Be proud of being black. [01:05:59] Jimmy Flowers: Don't let no one say, well, you're HIV now. Now keep silence, because silence to me equals death. It's time to act up peacefully and out there to march and let the politicians know that we are here and we're not going to take it no more. Did you participate in the AIDS walk this past year? Yes, I did. Can you tell us about that? Well, I carried the sign. I got to admit, the crowd was much bigger in Oklahoma than last year. Last year there was only 65 and I was sort of a little bit upset about it. [01:06:37] Jimmy Flowers: And I got a little emotional and a little angry and I went back to those groups and I told them, shame, shame on you for not being at the walk. This year we had close to 150 or 200 people. What I hear in Oklahoma, that was great. But I like to see next year 1,000 people out there marching. Lesbians and gays. Straight people. Parents of gays. [01:07:05] Jimmy Flowers: And even Christians can get AIDS. Yeah, I just wanted to mention that because sometimes they say they're Christian and there was one guy, I won't mention no names, he was going with a woman every day and then all of a sudden with another woman and I told him, I tried to get him condoms and I gave him brochures and he said, well his minister told him it was a gay disease. And I said, no it is not a gay disease. It's a human disease. And which our own government has lied about it. The blood banks have lied about it. [01:07:45] Jimmy Flowers: The Christians tried to put the blame on the gay, that it was God's punishment to gay people. AIDS is man-made. Two scientists already came out and made a statement that in 1969 they developed AIDS as German warfare. Now this was on television because I watch a lot of talk shows. There's also, they were experiment on green monkeys. And in Africa, their food supplies is green monkeys that they eat because of lack of food. Throughout the country, in Africa alone, 10 million plus has AIDS. Mostly heterosexuals. In this country it hit the gay population. [01:08:37] Jimmy Flowers: Yes, that's true at first. But in other parts of the world, Russia, Japan, China, Switzerland, Germany, East Germany, West Germany, also Africa, all the other countries it hit the heterosexuals. But somehow the gays get the blame for it. Don't ask me why, I don't know why. But it's time now to come out and not to do it violently, but peacefully protest by numbers. I've been asked that question quite a lot. And my answer is, no, I will not do anything differently. [01:09:30] Jimmy Flowers: Because I believe very strongly that I was born gay, not made, and I also believe in God, and I also believe in Jesus. And I believe in a God of love, not a God of hate. I also believe that Jesus preached love in the Ten Commandments, if you looked at it. It does not say, thy shall not be a homosexual. Which in 1976, some of the religious groups wanted to bring Eleventh Commandment on the Ten Commandments. And I was doing the Neal O'Brien situation. Which, by the way, I was one of the people that threw a fruit pie at the Neal O'Brien's face. 14 �[01:10:22] Jimmy Flowers: And she forgave me. [01:10:25] Julie Trainum: How do you know she forgave you? [01:10:27] Jimmy Flowers: Because she said it on television that she forgives me. [01:10:30] Julie Trainum: I'm glad you brought that up again because a lot of the younger people may not remember who Anita O'Brien is. [01:10:35] Jimmy Flowers: Well, Anita O'Brien was the one that was doing the commercials, and she was a singer, and a blogger. [01:10:43] Julie Trainum: But before that, wasn't she like a Miss America or some type like that? [01:10:47] Jimmy Flowers: She came in second place. [01:10:49] Julie Trainum: Okay, well it makes her like this all-American type, and people are going to maybe listen to her. And so then she went into entertainment. [01:10:56] Jimmy Flowers: Well, I can say this. We're all Americans here. No matter what color, what background, if you're a woman, if you're a man, young, old, black and white, of race. We're all Americans here. But if you really want to get down to the nitty gritty, the only Americans here that's true Americans is the American Indians. I mean, let's face it. You know, white men brought the diseases over from Europe. [01:11:26] Jimmy Flowers: If these diseases, if they would think, if you think about this, number one, if the government could spend $2.3 billion on one bomb that would destroy countries and life, human life, from all walks of life. Why can't they spend, and we've got enough weapons and bombs and airplanes to destroy this world 20 times over, if not more. It is now time to put an end to all diseases and put the money together and have all the scientists throughout the world in this country. And I'm not just talking about AIDS. I'm talking about diabetes. [01:12:11] Jimmy Flowers: I'm talking about heart trouble or cancer and liver problems. If they will find and put their money to save human life instead of destroying human life, I'll bet you, ten to one, we will be much happier. Because in the Constitution of the United States too, it says, life, liberty, and presumed happiness. And so far, I really haven't seen much of that. And I'm sure a lot of others haven't either. [01:12:43] Julie Trainum: But... [01:12:43] Julie Trainum: Okay, let me stop there for a second. [01:12:45] Julie Trainum: Stand by, stand by. We're looking at some of the things that Jimmy brought with him. Just kind of show real quick a few of these items. And let's go back over here to the purple outfit. Tell us what this is and when you wore it. [01:13:04] Jimmy Flowers: Okay. This was part of my go-go outfit. I was a go-go boy. [01:13:09] Julie Trainum: What is that again? You're a dancer. [01:13:09] Julie Trainum: And I also was a go-go boy at [01:13:11] Jimmy Flowers: the Gay Activist Alliance of New York City in the firehouse of GAA and at the Stonewall and at the Church of the Beloved Disciples, which was the first gay church in 1970 to raise money for the Church of the Beloved Disciples. [01:13:41] Julie Trainum: Okay. [01:13:42] Jimmy Flowers: And also, at that time, they called them hot pants. And that was part... I had black boots and a black cowboy hat and with the saccadone lights. That was part of my outfit. [01:13:55] Julie Trainum: Okay, great. And let's go back over here to this T-shirt here. This is really neat. 15 �[01:14:02] Jimmy Flowers: Well, I was the marshal of the... In 1983, one of the marshals, which is one of the grand marshals of the... You were chosen to be one of the persons that was involved in Stonewall and they called you a grand marshal. [01:14:28] Julie Trainum: Okay. [01:14:29] Jimmy Flowers: And this is the T-shirt from the 25th anniversary of Stonewall, which Stonewall would include all lesbians and gays from all over the world. [01:14:40] Julie Trainum: Okay. [01:14:40] Jimmy Flowers: And marched on the United Nations building to show that we want lesbian and gay rights throughout the world. [01:14:49] Julie Trainum: Okay. [01:14:50] Julie Trainum: And was this the Marshall T-shirt you were studying? [01:14:54] Julie Trainum: Yeah. [01:14:54] Jimmy Flowers: Which was 1983. [01:14:57] Julie Trainum: That's great. Okay. [01:15:01] Julie Trainum: And this banner? [01:15:02] Jimmy Flowers: That's the Stonewall banner which was given to me by Ed Murphy in late 70s. We all got one. As you see it's turning pink, but it was purple and gold. Lavender and purple and white is the lesbian and gay colors. [01:15:21] Julie Trainum: Okay. Great. Let's move over here and take a look at some of these buttons you have here. [01:15:28] Jimmy Flowers: Well, this shows you here in New York City in 1988. This was in the 80s. The gay 90s are coming. This here is the P flag. [01:15:42] Jimmy Flowers: This was the symbol for gay black of Africans, America, Americans. [01:15:50] Jimmy Flowers: This was the button on March of 87 to the White House. And this button here was printed in 1971, gay love, it's the real thing. This here was printed in 1970, I'm a man's man. This here is lesbian gay vote 89. And this was the first march in 1979 on Washington, National March. This is a button that says I support lesbian gay rights. This button here is the quilt, the names of the project. And this here says fight for lesbian gay rights, liberation. And you see the fist in the air means power to the people. [01:16:43] Julie Trainum: You told me one time how many buttons you actually collected when you had all of them. Do you remember how many? [01:16:48] Jimmy Flowers: Oh, I remember how many. Yes, definitely. Before I left New York in 89, I donated over 2,000 lesbian gay buttons to the Lesbian Gay Community Center. I also donated over 1,500 lesbian gay books that was printed from the 50s and 60s to the Lesbian Gay Community Center and the original lesbian gay flag. [01:17:14] Julie Trainum: What I'd like to do is just to get you to summarize, if you would, some of the ideas that you have about what you'd like to see happen in Tulsa. [01:17:25] Jimmy Flowers: Well, number one, I'd like to see Oklahoma wake up and smell the flowers. And also to see more unity instead of more divided. The hungry power should stop the dividing of lesbians and gays and young gays and older gays and black gays and lesbian black gays. What I am seeing now is what I feel like sometimes I'm reliving the 70s and the 80s all over again. What I'd like to see is more unity among all of us. The young, the old, the black, the white, and even some of the straight people in the community to get involved. 16 �[01:18:14] Jimmy Flowers: And also get the politicians to wake up and realize that we are here, we're not going away, we're going to be out there marching. But I insist, let's march peacefully, no violence. We must do it in unity. Once we step outside of the door, we must show numbers, unity, and strength. And let the politicians and the media and the Christians know that we mean business. That we are Americans and we're human beings and we are children of God. And we're just like anybody else. [01:19:04] Jimmy Flowers: We come from poor to black to rich, middle class, upper class, or lower class, and even homeless people. There are homeless people out there who has HIV and AIDS and they're not hardly getting no help at all. There's people from all over here that we have to educate the politicians that it's not a gay disease. It's a human disease and we must put a stop to it now. I say to the gay youth, come out, be proud, and be careful, and play safe. Show affection, be yourselves, and start marching. [01:19:54] Julie Trainum: Thanks, Jim. 17 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Series] Oral Histories Project > Interviews Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br />Box 7, Folder 7 - Dr. Leisa Meyer Program<br />Box 7, Folder 8 - Interviewees Materials, Original Series 2003-2007<br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data VHS Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1 hour 20 minutes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [c. 2000] The Jimmy Flowers Story Subject The topic of the resource Jimmy Flowers Interview for Tulsa Youth Discovering Diversity Description An account of the resource From Julie Tucker - Trainum, August 2019 - Jimmy Flowers was one of the very first members of the AIDS Coalition in Tulsa. He was a young man when he was part of Stonewall and in his interview he talks about Stonewall. Jimmy died in the mid 2000s. He was interviewed so we could share his story at the YST support group "Tulsa Youth Discovering Diversity." Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jimmy Flowers, Julie Tucker-Trainum, Youth Services of Tulsa, Dennis Neill Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Interview was conducted in 1999 or 2000 1999 2000 AIDS AIDS Coalition of Tulsa HIV interview Jimmy Flowers Julie Tucker-Trainum OKEQ Oral History Project oral history oral history interview Oral History Project oral history transcript Stonewall transcript Tulsa Youth Discovering Diversity video Youth Services of Tulsa YST https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/2f56e8eb013fc7285639282d80498d7d.pdf 84d7d4b5a9977fabc990006ac7325a08 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource "Outrage" Flier Subject The topic of the resource Arts and Culture Description An account of the resource Flier advertising "Outrage," a film about closeted gay politicians who stand against LGBT rights. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Circle Cinema Relation A related resource Circle Cinema Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Flier Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant "Outrage" Film Arts and Culture Politics Homophobia Activism Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context https://history.okeq.org/files/show/2091 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [ND] Circle Cinema Subject The topic of the resource Arts and Culture Description An account of the resource Documents and items relating to the Circle Cinema. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Circle Cinema Language A language of the resource English Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Arts and Culture "Outrage" Film Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context https://history.okeq.org/items/show/641 activism arts and entertainment Film https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/b367a4f6b231939e8565db8c28ea7b6f.mp4 d33190fe0b4a8b5a063b9662de140aac Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Sub-Series] OKEQ > Events > Follies Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [ND] Follies Video https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/f1b1cddf4c503aa1dc4cae2719505f13.pdf aaa00c46e5965ae5a68dae73e47be796 PDF Text Text ����� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Collection] Oklahoma LGBT+ History Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br /><br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Text Any textual data included in the document Rollie Lynn Riggs (August 31, 1899 - June 30, 1954) was an American author, poet and playwright born on a farm near Claremore, Oklahoma. His mother was 1/8 Cherokee, and when he was two years old, his mother secured his Cherokee allotment for him. He moved to Shelter Island, New York after he started receiving a steady income when Green Grow The Lilacs was adapted into the landmark musical Oklahoma! (In 1943) James Fugate (pen name James Barr), author of several gay themed novels, plays, and articles was born in Oklahoma. It was while in Holyrood that the bulk of his literary output was produced including his groundbreaking novel Quatrefoil published in 1950. In the 1950s Fugate began a journalism career as the area feature writer for the Great Bend, Kansas, Tribune. In addition to Quatrefoil, Fugate also published the play Game of Fools (1955), and his second novel The Occasional Man (1966). Bruce Alonzo Goff (June 8, 1904 - August 4, 1982) was an American architect, distinguished by his organic, eclectic, and often flamboyant designs for houses and other buildings in Oklahoma. Goff accepted a teaching position with the School of Architecture at the University of Oklahoma in 1942. In 1955, Goff, who was homosexual, was accused of "endangering the morals of a minor", as homosexuality was not socially acceptable in Norman, Oklahoma in 1955. As a result of the unproven claims, he was forced to resign from his position at the University of Oklahoma. Anita Bryant was born in Barnsdall, Oklahoma. Bryant became Miss Oklahoma in 1958 and was a second runner-up in the 1959 Miss America beauty pageant at age 19, right after graduating from Tulsa's Will Rogers High School. In 1977, Dale County, Florida, passed an ordinance sponsored by Bryant's former friend Ruth Shack that prohibited discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Bryant led a highly publicized campaign to repeal the ordinance as the leader of a coalition named Save Our Children. The campaign was based on conservative Christian beliefs regarding the sinfulness of homosexuality. Phyllis Ann Lyon and Dorothy Louise Taliaferro "Del" Martin, are an American lesbian couple known as feminist and gay-rights activists. Phyllis Lyon was born on November 10, 1924 in Tulsa, Oklahoma. She holds a degree in journalism from the University of California, Berkeley, earned in 1946. During the 1940s, she worked as a reporter for the Chico Enterprise-Record, and during the 1950s, she worked as part of the editorial staff of two Seattle magazines. In 1955, Martin and Lyon and six other lesbian women formed the Daughters of Bilitis (DOB), the first national lesbian organization in the United States. On June 26, 2015 when the US Supreme Court ruled gay marriage legal Lyon age 90... laughed and laughed when told the news. "Well how about that?" she said. "For goodness' sakes." Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [ND] LGBT People of Oklahoma Description An account of the resource An informational document about notable individuals within Oklahoma's queer history, 5 pages. The document discusses the lives of Phyllis Ann Lyon, Anita Bryant, Bruce Alonzo Goff, James Fugate, and Rollie Lynn Riggs. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource ND Subject The topic of the resource LGBT People of Oklahoma Anita Bryant Bruce Alonzo Goff Bruce Goff Del Martin Dorothy Louise Taliaferro "Del" Martin Dorothy Louise Taliaferro Martin James Fugate LGBT history LGBT People of Oklahoma Lynn Riggs Phyllis Ann Lyon Rollie Lynn Riggs https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/4ac99159389ad070ebb7eaf1910efb37.pdf 56d06a1d8c479c60f7921ea91bf0633a PDF Text Text Finance Policy Manual Adopted (date) �Contents Section 1 – Introduction .............................................................................................. 4 Section 2 – General Provisions .................................................................................... 4 2.1 Segregation of Duties .................................................................................. 4 2.2 Accounting Period ....................................................................................... 4 2.3 Accounting Method ..................................................................................... 4 2.4 Accounting System ...................................................................................... 4 2.5 Consistent Treatment .................................................................................. 4 2.6 Finance Committee...................................................................................... 4 2.7 Non-Compliance .......................................................................................... 5 Section 3 – Cash, Banking and Investments ................................................................. 5 3.1 Bank Authority ........................................................................................... 5 3.2 Banking Relationships ................................................................................. 5 3.3 Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Coverage (FDIC) .............................. 5 3.4 Bank Reconciliations.................................................................................... 5 3.5 Deposits ...................................................................................................... 5 3.6 Voided Checks ............................................................................................. 5 3.7 Petty Cash ................................................................................................... 6 3.8 Credit/Prepaid Debit Cards .......................................................................... 6 3.9 Investments................................................................................................. 7 Section 4 – Accounts Receivable and Revenue Recognition ......................................... 7 4.1 Invoicing ...................................................................................................... 7 4.2 Revenue Recognition ................................................................................... 7 4.3 Contribution Acknowledgement .................................................................. 7 Section 5 – Other Assets.............................................................................................. 7 5.1 Fixed Assets ................................................................................................. 7 5.2 Fixed Asset Depreciation ............................................................................. 7 5.3 Fixed Asset Disposition ................................................................................ 8 5.4 Prepaid Assets ............................................................................................. 8 Section 6 – Purchasing and Payables ........................................................................... 8 6.1 Open Competition ....................................................................................... 8 6.2 Approval Limits ........................................................................................... 8 6.3 Contracts and Agreements .......................................................................... 8 6.4 Accounts Payable ........................................................................................ 9 6.5 Tax Reporting and Compliance .................................................................... 9 Section 7 – Payroll and Related Liabilities.................................................................... 9 7.1 Payroll Processing ........................................................................................ 9 7.2 Payroll Liabilities ......................................................................................... 9 7.3 Payroll Reporting ......................................................................................... 9 7.4 Payroll Changes ........................................................................................... 9 Page 2 of 14 �Section 8 – Other Liabilities ....................................................................................... 10 8.1 Accruals ..................................................................................................... 10 8.2 Loans ......................................................................................................... 10 8.3 Assumption of Debt ................................................................................... 10 8.4 Long-Term Debt ......................................................................................... 10 8.5 Deferred Revenue ..................................................................................... 10 Section 9 – Travel and Expense Reimbursement ....................................................... 10 9.1 Travel Expenses ......................................................................................... 10 9.2 Employee Expense Reimbursement ........................................................... 10 9.3 Unallowable Expenses ............................................................................... 11 Section 10 – Financial Reporting................................................................................ 12 10.1 Review..................................................................................................... 12 10.2 Reporting Frequency ............................................................................... 12 10.3 Journal Entries ......................................................................................... 12 10.4 Balance Sheet Reconciliations.................................................................. 12 10.5 Financial Audit ......................................................................................... 12 Section 11 – Budgeting .............................................................................................. 12 11.1 Organization Budget ................................................................................ 12 11.2 Programmatic/Grant Budgets .................................................................. 13 11.3 Event Budgets.......................................................................................... 13 Section 12 – Document Retention and Destruction ................................................... 13 Page 3 of 14 �Section 1 – Introduction Oklahomans for Equality, hereinafter referred to as “OKEQ” is a tax-exempt organization pursuant to Internal Revenue Code §501(c)(3). The mission of OkEq is to seek equal rights for Two-Spirit, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer/Questioning, Intersex, Ace, and plus (2SLGBTQIA+) individuals and families through intersectional advocacy, education, programs, alliances, and the operation of the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center. This manual contains the internal controls and financial management standards used by OKEQ to safeguard all assets and ensure that they are used solely for authorized purposes. All Board of Directors, employees and/or contractors have a responsibility to utilize the organization’s assets in the most efficient manner possible and to guard against loss of the organization’s assets whether due to error or fraud. It is important that these internal controls are observed to maintain the highest level of fiscal integrity and accountability. Management, including but not limited to the Board of Directors (the Board), will have the responsibility for interpretation of these policies. All questions regarding financial policy should be directed to the Finance Committee. Section 2 – General Provisions 2.1 Segregation of Duties Proper segregation of duties shall be maintained at all times in order to safeguard the assets of the organization. No single individual shall have the authority to both request and approve the disbursement or obligation of funds. The Board and the Finance Committee are charged with general oversight of the finance function and will be provided periodic financial reports to facilitate this duty. 2.2 Accounting Period The accounting period of OKEQ is October 1 thru September 30. 2.3 Accounting Method OKEQ will utilize the accrual method of accounting, in accordance with Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP). 2.4 Accounting System OKEQ will use an ERP accounting system that includes the capability to segregate activity by funding source. Within this accounting system, a chart of accounts will be established that ensures proper classification of activity by account type and in alignment with line items included in approved budgets. 2.5 Consistent Treatment All financial policies and procedures shall be applied consistently across all funding sources and across all funding periods. 2.6 Finance Committee Page 4 of 14 �An integral part of the internal controls outlined in this document is the existence of a Finance Committee that reports to the Board. The Finance Committee will be chaired by the Treasurer. Other members of the Board and/or community members may be appointed to the committee by the Treasurer. 2.7 Non-Compliance Compliance with this policy is mandatory. No employee has the authority to act contrary to the provisions of this policy or to authorize, direct, or condone violations of it by any other employee or by any representative of OkEq. Any employee who has knowledge of facts or incidents which is to be believed in violation of this policy has an obligation, promptly after learning of such fact or incident, to review the matter with Executive Director or someone from the Executive Committee. Section 3 – Cash, Banking and Investments 3.1 Bank Authority Bank Signers should be voted by the board and be limited to three elected members of the Executive Committee. Upon approval of the Board, changes to the authorized signers will be communicated to the banking institution by a member of the Finance Committee. . 3.2 Banking Relationships Banking relationships will be reviewed every two years by the Finance Committee to ensure competitive interest rates are being received, determine if alternate banking products have become more suitable, and make sure fees and charges are reasonable. The results of any review of banking relationships will be provided to the Finance Committee along with a recommended course of action. The Finance Committee will review the recommendation and forward their recommendation to the full Board for approval. The Board Treasurer will execute any Board decisions regarding banking relationships. 3.3 Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Coverage (FDIC) The Accountant will monitor bank balances on a continual basis to ensure FDIC coverage is maintained. If new bank accounts are needed to maintain FDIC coverage, the Finance Committee will research potential institutions and provide recommendations to the Board. The Board Treasurer will take the necessary steps to open new bank accounts and to move funding as directed by the Board. 3.4 Bank Reconciliations Bank reconciliations will be performed by the Accountant each month. Bank statements will be printed from online banking applications, if available, for reconciliation purposes. Completed bank reconciliations will be provided to the Board Treasurer for review. 3.5 Deposits Any checks or cash received will be deposited as soon as practical, but at least weekly, and recorded in the accounting system when deposited. Proof of deposit, check copies and any documentation accompanying the checks/cash will be maintained in the Finance files. 3.6 Voided Checks Every check that has been voided, regardless of reason, shall be recorded in the accounting Page 5 of 14 �system. If voided checks are physically available, they will be marked “VOID”, signature line removed and kept in the Finance files. 3.7 Petty Cash A petty cash fund may be needed for the store, events, and fundraising activities. Petty cash is used only when it is necessary to pay for small purchases and to provide an adequate amount of change where cash is accepted. A receipt or verifiable documentation must be acquired upon payment. Total petty cash funds do not exceed $500.00, except where more funds are needed for change at events. The petty cash fund must have a designated custodian responsible for that fund who is independent of the accounting department and the cash disbursement process. When necessary, the bank signers have authority to replenish the account. The custodian and the person approving replenishment of the petty cash fund cannot be the same person. Alternatively, petty cash may be replenished by depositing some cash into the petty cash account that would otherwise be deposited into the bank account. Full documentation for this deposit should be retained. The petty cash is counted and verified by two individuals using the Petty Cash Reconciliation form. The reconciliation is sent to the Accountant at the end of each month. Petty cash cannot be used for the following: • Purchases from or expenses incurred with a vendor that cannot provide an invoice or receipt. • Vendors that have an active account in the accounting system. • Employee expense reports. • Employee advances (salary, travel, or otherwise). • Any payroll-related costs or adjustments. • Inventory materials. • Anything related to taxes. • Anything related to government fees • Fixed Assets. 3.8 Credit/Prepaid Debit Cards Credit or Prepaid Debit Cards associated with OKEQ may be issued to staff and board members to be used for business-related expenditures. The Finance Committee shall determine who is authorized to have an OKEQ credit/prepaid debit card. All cards shall be under the name and federal identification number of OKEQ. It is strictly prohibited for staff to use their personal social security number to obtain a credit card in OKEQ’s name. Credit/prepaid cards shall not be used for personal charges at any time. If personal charges are made accidentally, the card holder will inform the Executive Director and immediately reimburse OKEQ. Written documentation will be kept in employee file stored within the locked storage in the office of the Executive Director. Card holders are required to submit itemized receipts each month to the Accountant for all charges monthly through the Finance Request Form. The Executive Director or Treasurer will review and approve transactions. The Accountant will enter transactions into the accounting system based on the supporting documentation provided. All policies related to purchasing also apply to transactions made by credit/prepaid debit cards, and full compliance is expected. The Page 6 of 14 �card holder can be held responsible for any transactions for which a receipt is not submitted. The card holder may be required to reimburse OKEQ for these unsubstantiated transactions. Repeated non-compliance with these requirements by a card holder will result in the loss of card privileges. Unauthorized charges or lost/stolen cards shall be immediately reported to the Executive Director so appropriate action may be taken. 3.9 Investments No funds of OKEQ shall be deposited in any name other than OKEQ, and no funds of OKEQ shall be invested without approval of the Board. The Board may approve an investment policy separate from this document. In addition, OKEQ may utilize an investment advisor. Section 4 – Accounts Receivable and Revenue Recognition 4.1 Invoicing Invoicing for grants and contracts will be prepared at the frequency and per the terms of the grant or contract. Invoices will be entered and tracked through the accounting system. Supporting documentation for any expenditures charged to a grant or contract will be maintained in the finance files along with a copy of the invoice. The Accountant will record payments on invoices when they are received. 4.2 Revenue Recognition Revenue will be recognized based on the terms of each grant or restricted funds and the appropriate GAAP revenue recognition principle. 4.3 Contribution Acknowledgement For all cash or in-kind donations of $250 or more, the contributor will receive an acknowledgement letter. All quid pro quo contributions of $75 or more will be documented as required and an acknowledgement sent to the contributor. Section 5 – Other Assets 5.1 Fixed Assets Fixed assets are defined as any piece of furniture or equipment valued at two thousand five hundred ($2,500.00) or more and having an expected useful life of greater than one year. All purchases that are classified as fixed assets will be recorded in a fixed asset records. An inventory of fixed assets will be performed at the end of each fiscal year using the fixed asset record as a guide. Assets are the property of OKEQ. Assets will be classified in the following categories with the useful life indicated below. • Furniture and Fixtures – 10 years • Computer & Electronic Equipment – 5 years • Software – 3 years 5.2 Fixed Asset Depreciation Page 7 of 14 �Depreciation will be calculated on an annual basis using the straight-line depreciation method and will be classified as an administrative expense. 5.3 Fixed Asset Disposition Fixed assets may be sold or traded-in on new equipment. Any asset that is missing or has been stolen will be reported in writing to the Board as soon as possible. The description and other pertinent information about the lost item shall be included in the report. The Board President will determine the proper course of action and will direct the notification of OKEQ’s insurance carrier and any outside authorities, if deemed necessary. If the asset is not recovered, it will be removed from the fixed asset records. Fixed assets that are deemed as unusable will be reported to the Board, disposed of properly and removed from the fixed asset records. 5.4 Prepaid Assets Any items over $1,000, such as insurance premiums, that are paid in advance and cover a future period will be classified as Prepaid Assets and amortized over the appropriate period. Section 6 – Purchasing and Payables 6.1 Open Competition All purchases must follow the approval requirements and processes outlined in this section. Goods or services costing more than five-thousand ($5,000.00) each require three bids. The supporting documents demonstrating that three bids have been obtained will be maintained in the finance files. A sole source purchase may be authorized when it is impossible or extremely impractical to obtain three bids and subject matter experts. The reason that the purchase was made as a sole source must be thoroughly documented, and the documentation must be kept in the finance files. 6.2 Approval Limits The following approval limits apply to all purchases. The limits apply to the total cost of a purchase. Purchases shall not be split in order to circumvent these limits. Whenever possible, purchases should be combined to reduce administrative burden, reduce shipping costs and/or obtain volume purchasing discounts. • • • Up to $5,000 – Executive Director $5,001 to $15,000 – Executive Committee Over $15,000 – Board approval 6.3 Contracts and Agreements Signature authority for contracts and agreements are limited to the Board Chair, Board Treasurer, and Executive Director following appropriate approval limits listed above in section 6.2. Contracts and legal documents should go through review prior to any action on them. A contract must be fully executed before payments can be made to vendors. A copy of the fully executed contract will be maintained in the finance files. Page 8 of 14 �6.4 Accounts Payable Request for invoice payment will be processed through the Finance Request Form with appropriate coding, invoice (not statements), and other supporting documents for the associated purchase. Upon submission, the Finance Request Form is routed to the Executive Director or Treasurer for approval. Once approved, the completed packet will be submitted to the Accountant to be entered into the accounting system and to be included on the weekly check run. The check run report is reviewed by the President and Treasurer. After review, the payments are disbursed by the Accountant either via paper check or electronic payment. No individual may request, approve and initiate payment. No vendor invoices will be paid from Petty Cash. All supporting documentation is maintained in the finance files. 6.5 Tax Reporting and Compliance All vendors will be required to provide Form W-9 Request for Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification prior to payments being issued to the vendor. Backup withholding requirements, as specified by the Internal Revenue Service, will be applied, if necessary. The completed Form W9 will be maintained in the finance files. Form 1099 will be prepared and provided to vendors annually based on the Internal Revenue Service requirements in effect at the time. Section 7 – Payroll and Related Liabilities 7.1 Payroll Processing Payroll is processed on a bi-weekly basis, with payment dates on Friday. Payroll is paid via direct deposit only. Employees are responsible for tracking their time and recording actual hours worked in the designated timekeeping system. Hours entered in the timekeeping system should be approved by Supervisors. The Accountant is responsible for entering and processing payroll payments through the payroll system. Withholdings will be made from employee paychecks based on employee authorizations, Form W-4, and applicable law. 7.2 Payroll Liabilities All payroll liabilities, including federal and state taxes, will be paid as soon as practical following the end of each pay period. The Accountant is responsible for ensuring timely payment of payroll liabilities. 7.3 Payroll Reporting The Accountant is responsible for ensuring all required payroll tax returns are prepared and timely filed. W-2 Wage and Tax Statements and W-3 Transmittal of Wage and Tax Statements will be prepared and distributed on an annual basis within applicable timelines established by the Internal Revenue Service. Deadlines and filing requirements will be monitored by the Accountant, and filing frequency and content will be modified, as needed. 7.4 Payroll Changes If changes need to be made in the payroll system, an Employee Change Form will be completed and signed by the employee and Executive Director. Changes in the payroll system will not be applied until all approvals are complete. The Employee Change Form will be filed in the finance Page 9 of 14 �files. Section 8 – Other Liabilities 8.1 Accruals Accruals are necessary from time to time to record costs or revenue to the appropriate accounting period. At a minimum, accruals will be prepared at fiscal year-end to ensure the accuracy of annual financial statements and/or in preparation for the annual financial audit. 8.2 Loans OKEQ prohibits loans to staff, Directors, Officers, or committee members. 8.3 Assumption of Debt The Board of Directors of OkEq shall not have the power or authority to obligate OkEq to any single capital debt exceeding $50,000 unless approved by a majority vote of the full Board of Directors and unanimous vote of all of the Trustees. The Finance Committee must review all debt agreements prior to the presentation of such agreements to the Board. The Board’s authorization to incur debt shall be documented in the minutes of the Board meetings. 8.4 Long-Term Debt Current portions of long-term debt will be included with current liabilities on the financial statements. Only the noncurrent portion of the long-term debt will be included in the long-term debt section of the financial statements. The current portion of debt is considered to be the amount of principal due to be paid over the ensuing twelve (12) month period, or any debt expected to be refinanced within the same twelve (12) month period. 8.5 Deferred Revenue Cash receipts in excess of costs incurred on conditional grants are to be reflected as Deferred Revenue and temporarily restricted net assets until they are expended for the purpose of the grant, at which time they will be considered earned and recognized as unrestricted support. Section 9 – Travel and Expense Reimbursement 9.1 Travel Expenses From time to time, staff or Board members may be approved for travel related to the business of OKEQ. All travel-related expenses must be appropriately documented and submitted through the Finance Request Form. All requests for reimbursement require approval from the Executive Director and Treasurer. 9.2 Employee Expense Reimbursement Reimbursement for other pre-approved expenses such as cell phone, business meals, supplies, and services (not an inclusive list) may be made for business purposes only. To request reimbursement a Finance Request Form is submitted along with relevant invoices, receipts, and other verifiable documentation. Page 10 of 14 �9.3 Unallowable Expenses Reimbursement will not be made for items of a personal nature or for entertainment unrelated to business purposes. The cost of entertainment may be reimbursed if such entertainment is for business purposes, with prior approval of the Executive Director or Treasurer. Page 11 of 14 �Section 10 – Financial Reporting 10.1 Review The internal control procedures built into the accounting system are designed to help safeguard the assets of the organization from loss due to error or fraud during daily operations. Finance Committee review of financial reports is an important part of these internal controls. Finance Committee review serves to test the accuracy of the recorded data and to ensure compliance with internal control procedures, as well as other established policies and procedures. 10.2 Reporting Frequency Monthly Budget versus Actual reports will be prepared monthly and provided to the Finance Committee. The reports will be based on the approved budgets in effect at the time. The Finance Committee will review the reports before they are submitted to the Board as a whole. Annual IRS Form 990 Return of Organization Exempt from Income Tax will be prepared annually based on finalized information for the reporting period. The completed form will be provided to Management for review prior to filing. Periodic Additional financial reporting as required by funding sources will be prepared and submitted in a timely manner to ensure compliance with the funder conditions. 10.3 Journal Entries Journal entries will be prepared on an as needed basis to ensure the accuracy of financial records. Journal entries will be prepared by Finance and appropriate supporting documentation will be maintained. 10.4 Balance Sheet Reconciliations At a minimum, all items on the balance sheet will be reconciled on a monthly basis. 10.5 Financial Audit When required, the organization will contract with an appropriate independent accounting firm to perform a financial audit. The audit will be scheduled as soon as possible after the fiscal year ends. The independent accounting firm will be re-evaluated after being contracted for three consecutive audits. Section 11 – Budgeting 11.1 Organization Budget An annual budget will be drafted by the Executive Director with assistance from the Accountant and Finance Committee. The budget will be presented to Board for review and approval prior to the beginning of the fiscal year. The Executive Director is authorized to reallocate funds among budget line items to the extent that the total budget approved by the Board is not exceeded. The Executive Director shall report any such reallocations to the Board. Page 12 of 14 �11.2 Programmatic/Grant Budgets Programmatic and grant budgets will be prepared for each funded program. Expenditures for programmatic activities will be restricted to the budget approved by the funding sponsor. Expenses charged to programmatic budgets will be made in accordance with the applicable guidance provided by the funding sponsor. 11.3 Event Budgets Fundraising and Event budgets will be prepared by the Event Chairperson with assistance from the Executive Director and Accountant. Fundraising and Event budgets will be presented to the Finance Committee for approval before spending may occur. Section 12 – Document Retention and Destruction The following document retention standards have been adopted from the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants. The schedule reflects retention periods for specific types of documents. Notwithstanding the following, Oklahomans for Equality will adhere to any legal requirements that would supersede the retention periods outlines below. Additionally, all grant documents and related supporting documentation will be maintained for the audit look back period specified in each grant. Area Accounting Records Bank Records Corporate Records Document Type Accounts Payable Accounts Receivable Audit Reports Chart of Accounts Depreciation Schedules Expense Records Financial Statements (Annual) Fixed Asset purchases General Ledger Inventory Records Loan Payment Schedules Purchase Orders (1 copy) Sales Records Tax Return Bank reconciliations Bank statements Canceled checks Electronic payment records Board Minutes Bylaws Business Licenses Retention Period 7 years 7 years Permanent Permanent Permanent 7 years Permanent Permanent Permanent 7 years 7 years 7 years 7 years Permanent 2 years 7 years 7 years 7 years Permanent Permanent Permanent Page 13 of 14 �Contracts-major Contracts-minor Insurance policies Leases/mortgages Employee Records Benefit Plans Employee files (exemployees) Employment applications Employment taxes Payroll records Pension/profit sharing plans Real Property Records Construction records Leasehold improvements Lease payment records Real estate purchases Life +4 years Life +3 years Permanent Permanent Permanent 7 years 1 years 7 years 7 years Permanent Permanent Permanent Life +4 years Permanent Documents will be destroyed by a secured destruction methodology once the specified retention period has expired. Page 14 of 14 � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Text Any textual data included in the document Oklahomans for Equality<br />Finance Policy Manual<br /><strong>Adopted (date)</strong><br /><br /><strong>Contents<br /></strong><br /><strong>Section 1 – Introduction .............................................................................................. 4</strong><br /><strong>Section 2 – General Provisions .................................................................................... 4</strong><br /><strong>2.1 Segregation of Duties  .................................................................................. 4</strong><br /><strong>2.2 Accounting Period  ....................................................................................... 4</strong><br /><strong>2.3 Accounting Method ..................................................................................... 4</strong><br /><strong>2.4 Accounting System  ...................................................................................... 4</strong><br /><strong>2.5 Consistent Treatment .................................................................................. 4</strong><br /><strong>2.6 Finance Committee ...................................................................................... 4</strong><br /><strong>2.7 Non-Compliance .......................................................................................... 5</strong><br /><strong>Section 3 – Cash, Banking and Investments ................................................................. 5</strong><br /><strong>3.1 Bank Authority  ........................................................................................... 5</strong><br /><strong>3.2 Banking Relationships  ................................................................................. 5</strong><br /><strong>3.3 Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Coverage (FDIC) .............................. 5</strong><br /><strong>3.4 Bank Reconciliations .................................................................................... 5</strong><br /><strong>3.5 Deposits  ...................................................................................................... 5</strong><br /><strong>3.6 Voided Checks ............................................................................................. 5</strong><br /><strong>3.7 Petty Cash  ................................................................................................... 6</strong><br /><strong>3.8 Credit/Prepaid Debit Cards .......................................................................... 6</strong><br /><strong>3.9 Investments ................................................................................................. 7</strong><br /><strong>Section 4 – Accounts Receivable and Revenue Recognition ......................................... 7</strong><br /><strong>4.1 Invoicing ...................................................................................................... 7</strong><br /><strong>4.2 Revenue Recognition ................................................................................... 7</strong><br /><strong>4.3 Contribution Acknowledgement .................................................................. 7</strong><br /><strong>Section 5 – Other Assets .............................................................................................. 7</strong><br /><strong>5.1 Fixed Assets ................................................................................................. 7</strong><br /><strong>5.2 Fixed Asset Depreciation  ............................................................................. 7</strong><br /><strong>5.3 Fixed Asset Disposition ................................................................................ 8</strong><br /><strong>5.4 Prepaid Assets ............................................................................................. 8</strong><br /><strong>Section 6 – Purchasing and Payables ........................................................................... 8</strong><br /><strong>6.1 Open Competition  ....................................................................................... 8</strong><br /><strong>6.2 Approval Limits  ........................................................................................... 8</strong><br /><strong>6.3 Contracts and Agreements  .......................................................................... 8</strong><br /><strong>6.4 Accounts Payable  ........................................................................................ 9</strong><br /><strong>6.5 Tax Reporting and Compliance  .................................................................... 9</strong><br /><strong>Section 7 – Payroll and Related Liabilities .................................................................... 9</strong><br /><strong>7.1 Payroll Processing ........................................................................................ 9</strong><br /><strong>7.2 Payroll Liabilities  ......................................................................................... 9</strong><br /><strong>7.3 Payroll Reporting ......................................................................................... 9</strong><br /><strong>7.4 Payroll Changes ........................................................................................... 9</strong><br /><br />Page <strong>2</strong> of <strong>14</strong><br /><br /><strong>Section 8 – Other Liabilities ....................................................................................... 10</strong><br /><strong>8.1 Accruals ..................................................................................................... 10</strong><br /><strong>8.2 Loans ......................................................................................................... 10</strong><br /><strong>8.3 Assumption of Debt ................................................................................... 10</strong><br /><strong>8.4 Long-Term Debt ......................................................................................... 10</strong><br /><strong>8.5 Deferred Revenue  ..................................................................................... 10</strong><br /><strong>Section 9 – Travel and Expense Reimbursement  ....................................................... 10</strong><br /><strong>9.1 Travel Expenses ......................................................................................... 10</strong><br /><strong>9.2 Employee Expense Reimbursement ........................................................... 10</strong><br /><strong>9.3 Unallowable Expenses ............................................................................... 11</strong><br /><strong>Section 10 – Financial Reporting ................................................................................ 12</strong><br /><strong>10.1 Review ..................................................................................................... 12</strong><br /><strong>10.2 Reporting Frequency  ............................................................................... 12</strong><br /><strong>10.3 Journal Entries ......................................................................................... 12</strong><br /><strong>10.4 Balance Sheet Reconciliations .................................................................. 12</strong><br /><strong>10.5 Financial Audit ......................................................................................... 12</strong><br /><strong>Section 11 – Budgeting .............................................................................................. 12</strong><br /><strong>11.1 Organization Budget ................................................................................ 12</strong><br /><strong>11.2 Programmatic/Grant Budgets .................................................................. 13</strong><br /><strong>11.3 Event Budgets .......................................................................................... 13</strong><br /><strong>Section 12 – Document Retention and Destruction ................................................... 13</strong><br /><br />Page <strong>3</strong> of <strong>14</strong><br /><br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><strong>Section 1 – Introduction</strong></span><br /><em><strong>Oklahomans for Equality</strong></em>, hereinafter referred to as “OKEQ” is a tax-exempt organization pursuant to Internal Revenue Code §501(c)(3). The mission of OkEq is to seek equal rights for Two-Spirit, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer/Questioning, Intersex, Ace, and plus (2SLGBTQIA+) individuals and families through intersectional advocacy, education, programs, alliances, and the operation of the Dennis R. Neill Equality Center.<br />This manual contains the internal controls and financial management standards used by OKEQ to safeguard all assets and ensure that they are used solely for authorized purposes. All Board of Directors, employees and/or contractors have a responsibility to utilize the organization’s assets in the most efficient manner possible and to guard against loss of the organization’s assets whether due to error or fraud. It is important that these internal controls are observed to maintain<br />the highest level of fiscal integrity and accountability.<br />Management, including but not limited to the Board of Directors (the Board), will have the responsibility for interpretation of these policies. All questions regarding financial policy should be directed to the Finance Committee.<br /><br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><strong>Section 2 – General Provisions</strong></span><br /><strong>2.1 Segregation of Duties</strong><br />Proper segregation of duties shall be maintained at all times in order to safeguard the assets of the organization. No single individual shall have the authority to both request and approve the disbursement or obligation of funds. The Board and the Finance Committee are charged with general oversight of the finance function and will be provided periodic financial reports to facilitate this duty.<br /><strong>2.2 Accounting Period</strong><br />The accounting period of OKEQ is October 1 thru September 30.<br /><strong>2.3 Accounting Method</strong><br />OKEQ will utilize the accrual method of accounting, in accordance with Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP).<br /><strong>2.4 Accounting System</strong><br />OKEQ will use an ERP accounting system that includes the capability to segregate activity by funding source. Within this accounting system, a chart of accounts will be established that ensures proper classification of activity by account type and in alignment with line items included in approved budgets.<br /><strong>2.5 Consistent Treatment</strong><br />All financial policies and procedures shall be applied consistently across all funding sources and across all funding periods.<br /><strong>2.6 Finance Committee</strong><br /><br />Page <strong>4</strong> of <strong>14</strong><br /><br />An integral part of the internal controls outlined in this document is the existence of a Finance Committee that reports to the Board. The Finance Committee will be chaired by the Treasurer. Other members of the Board and/or community members may be appointed to the committee by the Treasurer.<br /><strong>2.7 Non-Compliance</strong><br />Compliance with this policy is mandatory. No employee has the authority to act contrary to the provisions of this policy or to authorize, direct, or condone violations of it by any other employee or by any representative of OkEq. Any employee who has knowledge of facts or incidents which is to be believed in violation of this policy has an obligation, promptly after learning of such fact or incident, to review the matter with Executive Director or someone from the Executive Committee.<br /><br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><strong>Section 3 – Cash, Banking and Investments</strong></span><br /><strong>3.1 Bank Authority</strong><br />Bank Signers should be voted by the board and be limited to three elected members of the Executive Committee. Upon approval of the Board, changes to the authorized signers will be communicated to the banking institution by a member of the Finance Committee. . [sic]<br /><strong>3.2 Banking Relationships<br /></strong>Banking relationships will be reviewed every two years by the Finance Committee to ensure competitive interest rates are being received, determine if alternate banking products have become more suitable, and make sure fees and charges are reasonable. The results of any review of banking relationships will be provided to the Finance Committee along with a recommended course of action. The Finance Committee will review the recommendation and forward their recommendation to the full Board for approval. The Board Treasurer will execute any Board decisions regarding banking relationships.<br /><strong>3.3 Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Coverage (FDIC)<br /></strong>The Accountant will monitor bank balances on a continual basis to ensure FDIC coverage is maintained. If new bank accounts are needed to maintain FDIC coverage, the Finance Committee will research potential institutions and provide recommendations to the Board. The Board Treasurer will take the necessary steps to open new bank accounts and to move funding as directed by the Board.<br /><strong>3.4 Bank Reconciliations</strong><br />Bank reconciliations will be performed by the Accountant each month. Bank statements will be printed from online banking applications, if available, for reconciliation purposes. Completed bank reconciliations will be provided to the Board Treasurer for review.<br /><strong>3.5 Deposits<br /></strong>Any checks or cash received will be deposited as soon as practical, but at least weekly, and recorded in the accounting system when deposited. Proof of deposit, check copies and any documentation accompanying the checks/cash will be maintained in the Finance files.<br /><strong>3.6 Voided Checks</strong><br />Every check that has been voided, regardless of reason, shall be recorded in the accounting system. If voided checks are physically available, they will be marked “VOID”, signature line removed and kept in the Finance files.<br /><br />Page <strong>5</strong> of <strong>14</strong><br /><br /><strong>3.7 Petty Cash<br /></strong>A petty cash fund may be needed for the store, events, and fundraising activities. Petty cash is used only when it is necessary to pay for small purchases and to provide an adequate amount of change where cash is accepted. A receipt or verifiable documentation must be acquired upon payment. Total petty cash funds do not exceed $500.00, except where more funds are needed for change at events.<br />The petty cash fund must have a designated custodian responsible for that fund who is independent of the accounting department and the cash disbursement process. When necessary, the bank signers have authority to replenish the account. The custodian and the person approving replenishment of the petty cash fund cannot be the same person. Alternatively, petty cash may be replenished by depositing some cash into the petty cash account that would otherwise be deposited into the bank account. Full documentation for this deposit should be retained. The petty cash is counted and verified by two individuals using the Petty Cash Reconciliation form. The reconciliation is sent to the Accountant at the end of each month.<br />Petty cash cannot be used for the following:<br />• Purchases from or expenses incurred with a vendor that cannot provide an invoice or receipt.<br />• Vendors that have an active account in the accounting system.<br />• Employee expense reports.<br />• Employee advances (salary, travel, or otherwise).<br />• Any payroll-related costs or adjustments.<br />• Inventory materials.<br />• Anything related to taxes.<br />• Anything related to government fees<br />• Fixed Assets.<br /><strong>3.8 Credit/Prepaid Debit Cards<br /></strong>Credit or Prepaid Debit Cards associated with OKEQ may be issued to staff and board members to be used for business-related expenditures. The Finance Committee shall determine who is authorized to have an OKEQ credit/prepaid debit card. All cards shall be under the name and federal identification number of OKEQ. It is strictly prohibited for staff to use their personal social security number to obtain a credit card in OKEQ’s name.<br />Credit/prepaid cards shall not be used for personal charges at any time. If personal charges are made accidentally, the card holder will inform the Executive Director and immediately reimburse OKEQ. Written documentation will be kept in employee file stored within the locked storage in the office of the Executive Director.<br />Card holders are required to submit itemized receipts each month to the Accountant for all charges monthly through the Finance Request Form. The Executive Director or Treasurer will review and approve transactions. The Accountant will enter transactions into the accounting system based on the supporting documentation provided. All policies related to purchasing also apply to transactions made by credit/prepaid debit cards, and full compliance is expected. The card holder can be held responsible for any transactions for which a receipt is not submitted. The card holder may be required to reimburse OKEQ for these unsubstantiated transactions.<br /><br />Page <strong>6</strong> of <strong>14</strong><br /><br />Repeated non-compliance with these requirements by a card holder will result in the loss of card privileges. Unauthorized charges or lost/stolen cards shall be immediately reported to the Executive Director so appropriate action may be taken.<br /><strong>3.9 Investments<br /></strong>No funds of OKEQ shall be deposited in any name other than OKEQ, and no funds of OKEQ shall be invested without approval of the Board. The Board may approve an investment policy separate from this document. In addition, OKEQ may utilize an investment advisor.<br /><br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><strong>Section 4 – Accounts Receivable and Revenue Recognition</strong></span><br /><strong>4.1 Invoicing</strong><br />Invoicing for grants and contracts will be prepared at the frequency and per the terms of the grant or contract. Invoices will be entered and tracked through the accounting system. Supporting documentation for any expenditures charged to a grant or contract will be maintained in the finance files along with a copy of the invoice. The Accountant will record payments on invoices when they are received.<br /><strong>4.2 Revenue Recognition</strong><br />Revenue will be recognized based on the terms of each grant or restricted funds and the appropriate GAAP revenue recognition principle.<br /><strong>4.3 Contribution Acknowledgement<br /></strong>For all cash or in-kind donations of $250 or more, the contributor will receive an acknowledgement letter. All quid pro quo contributions of $75 or more will be documented as required and an acknowledgement sent to the contributor.<br /><br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><strong>Section 5 – Other Assets</strong></span><br /><strong>5.1 Fixed Assets</strong><br />Fixed assets are defined as any piece of furniture or equipment valued at two thousand five hundred ($2,500.00) or more and having an expected useful life of greater than one year. All purchases that are classified as fixed assets will be recorded in a fixed asset records. An inventory of fixed assets will be performed at the end of each fiscal year using the fixed asset record as a guide. Assets are the property of OKEQ.<br />Assets will be classified in the following categories with the useful life indicated below.<br />• Furniture and Fixtures – 10 years<br />• Computer &amp; Electronic Equipment – 5 years<br />• Software – 3 years<br /><strong>5.2 Fixed Asset Depreciation</strong><br /><br />Page <strong>7</strong> of <strong>14</strong><br /><br />Depreciation will be calculated on an annual basis using the straight-line depreciation method and will be classified as an administrative expense.<br /><strong>5.3 Fixed Asset Disposition</strong><br />Fixed assets may be sold or traded-in on new equipment. Any asset that is missing or has been stolen will be reported in writing to the Board as soon as possible. The description and other pertinent information about the lost item shall be included in the report. The Board President will determine the proper course of action and will direct the notification of OKEQ’s insurance carrier and any outside authorities, if deemed necessary. If the asset is not recovered, it will be removed from the fixed asset records.<br />Fixed assets that are deemed as unusable will be reported to the Board, disposed of properly and removed from the fixed asset records.<br /><strong>5.4 Prepaid Assets</strong><br />Any items over $1,000, such as insurance premiums, that are paid in advance and cover a future period will be classified as Prepaid Assets and amortized over the appropriate period.<br /><br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><strong>Section 6 – Purchasing and Payables</strong></span><br /><strong>6.1 Open Competition</strong><br />All purchases must follow the approval requirements and processes outlined in this section. Goods or services costing more than five-thousand ($5,000.00) each require three bids. The supporting documents demonstrating that three bids have been obtained will be maintained in the finance files. A sole source purchase may be authorized when it is impossible or extremely impractical to obtain three bids and subject matter experts. The reason that the purchase was made as a sole source must be thoroughly documented, and the documentation must be kept in the finance files.<br /><strong>6.2 Approval Limits</strong><br />The following approval limits apply to all purchases. The limits apply to the total cost of a purchase. Purchases shall not be split in order to circumvent these limits. Whenever possible, purchases should be combined to reduce administrative burden, reduce shipping costs and/or obtain volume purchasing discounts.<br />• Up to $5,000 – Executive Director<br />• $5,001 to $15,000 – Executive Committee<br />• Over $15,000 – Board approval<br /><strong>6.3 Contracts and Agreements</strong><br />Signature authority for contracts and agreements are limited to the Board Chair, Board Treasurer, and Executive Director following appropriate approval limits listed above in section 6.2. Contracts and legal documents should go through review prior to any action on them. A contract must be fully executed before payments can be made to vendors. A copy of the fully executed contract will be maintained in the finance files.<br /><br />Page <strong>8</strong> of <strong>14</strong><br /><br /><strong>6.4 Accounts Payable</strong><br />Request for invoice payment will be processed through the Finance Request Form with appropriate coding, invoice (not statements), and other supporting documents for the associated purchase. Upon submission, the Finance Request Form is routed to the Executive Director or Treasurer for approval. Once approved, the completed packet will be submitted to the Accountant to be entered into the accounting system and to be included on the weekly check run. The check run report is reviewed by the President and Treasurer. After review, the payments are disbursed by the Accountant either via paper check or electronic payment. No individual may request, approve and initiate payment. No vendor invoices will be paid from Petty Cash. All supporting documentation is maintained in the finance files.<br /><strong>6.5 Tax Reporting and Compliance</strong><br />All vendors will be required to provide Form W-9 Request for Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification prior to payments being issued to the vendor. Backup withholding requirements, as specified by the Internal Revenue Service, will be applied, if necessary. The completed Form W9 will be maintained in the finance files.<br />Form 1099 will be prepared and provided to vendors annually based on the Internal Revenue Service requirements in effect at the time.<br /><br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><strong>Section 7 – Payroll and Related Liabilities</strong></span><br /><strong>7.1 Payroll Processing</strong><br />Payroll is processed on a bi-weekly basis, with payment dates on Friday. Payroll is paid via direct deposit only. Employees are responsible for tracking their time and recording actual hours worked in the designated timekeeping system. Hours entered in the timekeeping system should be approved by Supervisors.<br />The Accountant is responsible for entering and processing payroll payments through the payroll system. Withholdings will be made from employee paychecks based on employee authorizations, Form W-4, and applicable law.<br /><strong>7.2 Payroll Liabilities<br /></strong>All payroll liabilities, including federal and state taxes, will be paid as soon as practical following the end of each pay period. The Accountant is responsible for ensuring timely payment of payroll liabilities.<br /><strong>7.3 Payroll Reporting<br /></strong>The Accountant is responsible for ensuring all required payroll tax returns are prepared and timely filed. W-2 Wage and Tax Statements and W-3 Transmittal of Wage and Tax Statements will be prepared and distributed on an annual basis within applicable timelines established by the Internal Revenue Service. Deadlines and filing requirements will be monitored by the Accountant, and filing frequency and content will be modified, as needed.<br /><strong>7.4 Payroll Changes<br /></strong>If changes need to be made in the payroll system, an Employee Change Form will be completed and signed by the employee and Executive Director. Changes in the payroll system will not be applied until all approvals are complete. The Employee Change Form will be filed in the finance files.<br /><br />Page <strong>9</strong> of <strong>14</strong><br /><br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><strong>Section 8 – Other Liabilities</strong></span><br /><strong>8.1 Accruals<br /></strong>Accruals are necessary from time to time to record costs or revenue to the appropriate accounting period. At a minimum, accruals will be prepared at fiscal year-end to ensure the accuracy of annual financial statements and/or in preparation for the annual financial audit.<br /><strong>8.2 Loans<br /></strong>OKEQ prohibits loans to staff, Directors, Officers, or committee members.<br /><strong>8.3 Assumption of Debt<br /></strong>The Board of Directors of OkEq shall not have the power or authority to obligate OkEq to any single capital debt exceeding $50,000 unless approved by a majority vote of the full Board of Directors and unanimous vote of all of the Trustees. The Finance Committee must review all debt agreements prior to the presentation of such agreements to the Board. The Board’s authorization to incur debt shall be documented in the minutes of the Board meetings.<br /><strong>8.4 Long-Term Debt<br /></strong>Current portions of long-term debt will be included with current liabilities on the financial statements. Only the noncurrent portion of the long-term debt will be included in the long-term debt section of the financial statements. The current portion of debt is considered to be the amount of principal due to be paid over the ensuing twelve (12) month period, or any debt expected to be refinanced within the same twelve (12) month period.<br /><strong>8.5 Deferred Revenue<br /></strong>Cash receipts in excess of costs incurred on conditional grants are to be reflected as Deferred Revenue and temporarily restricted net assets until they are expended for the purpose of the grant, at which time they will be considered earned and recognized as unrestricted support.<br /><br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><strong>Section 9 – Travel and Expense Reimbursement</strong></span><br /><strong>9.1 Travel Expenses</strong><br />From time to time, staff or Board members may be approved for travel related to the business of OKEQ. All travel-related expenses must be appropriately documented and submitted through the Finance Request Form. All requests for reimbursement require approval from the Executive Director and Treasurer.<br /><strong>9.2 Employee Expense Reimbursement</strong><br />Reimbursement for other pre-approved expenses such as cell phone, business meals, supplies, and services (not an inclusive list) may be made for business purposes only. To request reimbursement a Finance Request Form is submitted along with relevant invoices, receipts, and other verifiable documentation.<br /><br />Page <strong>10</strong> of <strong>14</strong><br /><br /><strong>9.3 Unallowable Expenses</strong><br />Reimbursement will not be made for items of a personal nature or for entertainment unrelated to business purposes. The cost of entertainment may be reimbursed if such entertainment is for business purposes, with prior approval of the Executive Director or Treasurer.<br /><br />Page <strong>11</strong> of <strong>14</strong><br /><br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><strong>Section 10 – Financial Reporting</strong></span><br /><strong>10.1 Review<br /></strong>The internal control procedures built into the accounting system are designed to help safeguard the assets of the organization from loss due to error or fraud during daily operations. Finance Committee review of financial reports is an important part of these internal controls. Finance Committee review serves to test the accuracy of the recorded data and to ensure compliance with internal control procedures, as well as other established policies and procedures.<br /><strong>10.2 Reporting Frequency</strong><br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Monthly</span><br />Budget versus Actual reports will be prepared monthly and provided to the Finance Committee. The reports will be based on the approved budgets in effect at the time. The Finance Committee will review the reports before they are submitted to the Board as a whole.<br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Annual</span><br />IRS Form 990 Return of Organization Exempt from Income Tax will be prepared annually based on finalized information for the reporting period. The completed form will be provided to Management for review prior to filing.<br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Periodic</span><br />Additional financial reporting as required by funding sources will be prepared and submitted in a timely manner to ensure compliance with the funder conditions.<br /><strong>10.3 Journal Entries</strong><br />Journal entries will be prepared on an as needed basis to ensure the accuracy of financial records. Journal entries will be prepared by Finance and appropriate supporting documentation will be maintained.<br /><strong>10.4 Balance Sheet Reconciliations</strong><br />At a minimum, all items on the balance sheet will be reconciled on a monthly basis.<br /><strong>10.5 Financial Audit</strong><br />When required, the organization will contract with an appropriate independent accounting firm to perform a financial audit. The audit will be scheduled as soon as possible after the fiscal year ends. The independent accounting firm will be re-evaluated after being contracted for three consecutive audits.<br /><br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><strong>Section 11 – Budgeting</strong></span><br /><strong>11.1 Organization Budget</strong><br />An annual budget will be drafted by the Executive Director with assistance from the Accountant and Finance Committee. The budget will be presented to Board for review and approval prior to the beginning of the fiscal year. The Executive Director is authorized to reallocate funds among budget line items to the extent that the total budget approved by the Board is not exceeded. The Executive Director shall report any such reallocations to the Board.<br /><br />Page <strong>12</strong> of <strong>14</strong><br /><br /><strong>11.2 Programmatic/Grant Budgets</strong><br />Programmatic and grant budgets will be prepared for each funded program. Expenditures for programmatic activities will be restricted to the budget approved by the funding sponsor. Expenses charged to programmatic budgets will be made in accordance with the applicable guidance provided by the funding sponsor.<br /><strong>11.3 Event Budgets</strong><br />Fundraising and Event budgets will be prepared by the Event Chairperson with assistance from the Executive Director and Accountant. Fundraising and Event budgets will be presented to the Finance Committee for approval before spending may occur.<br /><br /><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><strong>Section 12 – Document Retention and Destruction</strong></span><br />The following document retention standards have been adopted from the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants. The schedule reflects retention periods for specific types of documents. Notwithstanding the following, Oklahomans for Equality will adhere to any legal requirements that would supersede the retention periods outlines below. Additionally, all grant documents and related supporting documentation will be maintained for the audit look back period specified in each grant.<br />Area Document Type Retention Period<br />Accounting Records Accounts Payable 7 years<br />Accounts Receivable 7 years<br />Audit Reports Permanent<br />Chart of Accounts Permanent<br />Depreciation Schedules Permanent<br />Expense Records 7 years<br />Financial Statements (Annual)<br />Permanent<br />Fixed Asset purchases Permanent<br />General Ledger Permanent<br />Inventory Records 7 years<br />Loan Payment Schedules 7 years<br />Purchase Orders (1 copy) 7 years<br />Sales Records 7 years<br />Tax Return Permanent<br />Bank Records Bank reconciliations 2 years<br />Bank statements 7 years<br />Canceled checks 7 years<br />Electronic payment records 7 years<br />Corporate Records Board Minutes Permanent<br />Bylaws Permanent<br />Business Licenses Permanent<br /><br />Page <strong>13</strong> of <strong>14</strong><br /><br />Contracts-major Life +4 years<br />Contracts-minor Life +3 years<br />Insurance policies Permanent<br />Leases/mortgages Permanent<br />Employee Records Benefit Plans Permanent<br />Employee files (exemployees)<br />7 years<br />Employment applications 1 years<br />Employment taxes 7 years<br />Payroll records 7 years<br />Pension/profit sharing plans Permanent<br />Real Property Records Construction records Permanent<br />Leasehold improvements Permanent<br />Lease payment records Life +4 years<br />Real estate purchases Permanent<br />Documents will be destroyed by a secured destruction methodology once the specified retention period has expired.<br /><br />Page <strong>14</strong> of <strong>14</strong> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [ND] OKEQ Finance Policy Manual Subject The topic of the resource Oklahomans for Equality (OKEQ) Finance Policy Manual Description An account of the resource 14 pages of an undated copy of an Oklahomans for Equality (OKEQ) finance policy manual. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Oklahomans for Equality (OKEQ) Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived https://okeq.org/bylaws/ https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/8b17955f2598aacfc0fa751135eff656.pdf b20ef2ed67c11db8ba8c3001c21df295 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Open Arms Project Flier Subject The topic of the resource Youth Description An account of the resource Flier advertising new Open Arms Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Openarms Youth Project Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Openarms Youth Project Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Flier Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Openarms Youth Project (OYP) The Pride Center Youth Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context https://history.okeq.org/files/show/2076 PDF Text Text � https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/3fbab7671d048605dbd43b402e5deff6.pdf 27263251f71274bb38adfbee4f95171a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource You Are Not Alone Subject The topic of the resource Youth Description An account of the resource Flier advertising Openarms Youth Project Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Openarms Youth Project Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Openarms Youth Project Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Flier Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Openarms Youth Project Youth Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context https://history.okeq.org/files/show/2077 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [ND] Openarms Youth Project Subject The topic of the resource Youth Description An account of the resource Documents and items relating to youth group Openarms Youth Project. Language A language of the resource English Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Openarms Youth Project (OYP) Youth Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context https://history.okeq.org/items/show/632 Openarms Youth Project (OYP) The Pride Center youth https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/bcf0edcc3b208beee7109593ffc93585.doc bbcce0220ba472ffbefd7f50b18a3ec9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Series] Oral Histories Project > Project Materials Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br />Box 7, Folder 3 - Oral Histories Project Materials<br />Box 7, Folder 4 - OSU Materials<br />Box 7, Folder 5 - Strategic Planning &amp; Leadership<br />Box 7, Folder 6 - Project Notes<br />Items Not in Folders<br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Text Any textual data included in the document <p>#__-____<br />City ______________________________________<br />State, County _______________________________<br />Date ______________________________________</p> <h3>Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights</h3> <h3>GLBT History Project<br />Informed Consent</h3> <ol> <li>I hereby agree to participate in an interview in connection with the oral history project known as _____________________________________. I understand that I will be asked about _____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________.</li> <li>The interview will be videotaped and/or audio-taped. In the interview I may be identified by name, subject to my consent. I may also be identified by name in any transcript (whether verbatim or edited) of such interview, subject to my consent. If I choose to remain anonymous, I know that the tape(s) of my interview will be closed to use, and my name will not appear in the transcript or reference to any material contained in the interview. I know that in the case of choosing to remain anonymous, my interview will only be identified by an internal GLBT History Project tracking number.</li> <li>I understand that the interview will take approximately _____ hours and that I can withdraw from the project without prejudice prior to the execution and delivery of a deed of gift, a form of which is attached hereto. In the event that I withdraw from the interview, any tape made of the interview will be either given to me or destroyed, and no transcript will be made of the interview. I understand that a photograph of me will be taken or borrowed for duplication, and that if I withdraw from the project, the photograph will be given to me.</li> <li>Subject to the provisions of paragraph five below, I understand that, upon completion of the interview, the tape and content of the interview belong to Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights, and that the information in the interview can be used by Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights in any manner it will determine, subject only to the limitations listed below.</li> <li>Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights agrees that: (i) it will not use or exercise any of its rights to the information in the interview prior to the signing of the deed of gift; (ii) the deed of gift will be submitted to me for my signature at completion of the interview; and (iii) restrictions on the use of the interview can be placed in the deed of gift and will be accepted as amending Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Right's rights to the content of the interview. I understand that I have the right to review the tape or transcript of the interview before I sign the deed of gift.</li> <li>Any restrictions as to use of portions of the interview indicated by me will be edited out of the final copy of the transcript.</li> <li>I understand that at the conclusion of this project and upon signing the deed of gift, the tape, photograph, and one copy of the transcript will be kept in the possession of Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights and its Archive.</li> <li>If I have questions about the research project or procedures, I know I can contact _________________________________ at the GLBT History Project, TOHR, P.O. Box 2687, Tulsa, OK 74101, (918) 743-4297 or via e-mail at history@tohr.org.</li> </ol> <p>If I feel I have not been treated according to the descriptions in this form, or that my rights as a participant in research have been violated during the course of this project, I know I can contact the President of the Board of Directors of Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights, P.O. Box 2687, Tulsa, OK 74101, (918) 743-4297 or by e-mail at bortolani@tohr.org.</p> <p>____ I agree to be identified by name in any transcript or reference to any information contained in this interview.</p> <p>____ I wish to remain anonymous in any transcript or reference to any information contained in this interview. I wish to have the tape(s) containing my interview closed to use. I wish to have my transcript only identified by an internal GLBT History Project  tracking number.</p> <p>____ I wish to have the following limitations placed on the use of my interview:</p> <p>________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________</p> <p>Interviewer signature_____________________________________</p> <p>Interviewee signature_____________________________________</p> <p>Address _____________________________________</p> <p>  _____________________________________</p> <p>  _____________________________________</p> <p>Phone number _____________________________________</p> <p>Consent Date __/__/__</p> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [ND] Oral Histories Project Interview Informed Consent Form Description An account of the resource GLBT History Project informed consent form for Oral History Project interviews. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource ND https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/b6ad9eaab810fea2924159adea2eb38b.png 869115694a306db7bee40ec0ac5500c9 https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/ce0c0b9eff418807d4c0e2094eecaa7e.pdf 03093d4ea8c17a3ce443ac5fed90ea64 PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [ND] OYP Pamphlet Subject The topic of the resource Openarms Youth Project Description An account of the resource Pamphlet providing information about Openarms Youth Project. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Openarms Youth Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Openarms Youth Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Openarms Youth Project Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Openarms Youth Project Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Pamphlet Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Openarms Youth Project Outreach https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/8350067613f1b78bba637197a49aa508.pdf 717ce397d89ad1336dbf4285ba991ef9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource PFLAG Kite Day Flier Subject The topic of the resource Fundraisers Description An account of the resource Flier advertising PFLAG event Kite Day. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource October 13 Unknown Year Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Flier Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context https://history.okeq.org/files/show/2071 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) Kite Day PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [ND] Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) Subject The topic of the resource Activism Description An account of the resource Documents and items relating to the organization Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbian s and Gays (PFLAG). Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) Language A language of the resource English Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) Kite Day Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context https://history.okeq.org/items/show/628 activism children Kite Day Parents Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) youth https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/2fa160ba8ff3b42bcda1d7eaf2ed4f88.png 65f4b0875940cba7cc9faeddbbbba6a0 https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/0a67d5659c0318b6ae67195982ef3b14.mp4 d07285184026a1ec3c46c6fe15ffde11 Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data VHS Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 23 minutes 38 seconds Compression Type/rate of compression for moving image file (i.e. MPEG-4) MP4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [ND] PFLAG - Tulsa Chapter - Project Open Mind Press Conference Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource PFLAG - Tulsa Chapter Bill Hinkle Kathy Hinkle Nancy McDonald PFLAG Tulsa Chapter Project Open Mind https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/3efb6e15174c08d957a6149c905607e1.png 8745a7b2f7540773234daecf5d9accb8 https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/9efda14cfb237c57c74870def23ed44d.pdf cbc57a2dbd49df6cf2e55728aa927237 PDF Text Text �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [ND] PFLAG Pamphlet Subject The topic of the resource Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays Description An account of the resource Pamphlet informing about PFLAG. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Pamphlet Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays PFLAG Youth https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/a39d53518c1845835937f96f7ea730f5.png 89e3d18c64acd216f1af4d0f16c8df8c https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/dd5b8f4d3a0e252cb8f00d32b35ad4bd.mp4 51b23431508457dbbb880d7c7c7ead64 Moving Image A series of visual representations imparting an impression of motion when shown in succession. Examples include animations, movies, television programs, videos, zoetropes, or visual output from a simulation. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data VHS Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 2 hours 3 minutes Compression Type/rate of compression for moving image file (i.e. MPEG-4) MP4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [ND] PFLAG Straight from the Heart Subject The topic of the resource A discussion with Parents and their children Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Santa Clarita CA chapter of PFLAG PFLAG Santa Clara Straight from the Heart https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/b2eff444ee6e0ac7f46b2755043e9d56.jpg 3a843609b6d83b95948975a15ede4bc7 https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/5e47e406c45f0f27c045209a11988fda.jpg ca25ce37dbbb370032fc8a2a759defdf https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/810da593a895b22cb10bd6332fa88d41.jpg 28539532a949d23067ffa0bd83290fcd https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/abf0a34185751811208e48b21bf4067f.jpg f2dcdd840d6712a01e88a2912def4597 https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/81b354ba2aa3741a2fed5d8d047fe148.jpg d7111b307010896f23603b5e492607ae https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/7fb8cda89510c4ca232b30e5af67486e.jpg e9c120b18abaa106d4ccc6ada5593f9d https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/c7e2f447d3c40286844a23ed3cb55874.jpg e52844b5722596e41ba6288aaf1be073 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Series] OKEQ > Events Subject The topic of the resource Events by OKEQ or that involved OKEQ. Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br />Box 2, Folder 1 - Events<br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Photo Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [ND] Photos of Generations Group Sorting Materials Subject The topic of the resource Photos of the TOHR Generations Connections Group sorting materials Description An account of the resource 7 photos of the Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights (TOHR) Generations Connection Group sorting various materials and documents related to the organization. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights (TOHR) Generations Connection Generations Connection Group Generations Group history project photo photos TOHR TOHR GLBT HISTORY PROJECT Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights (TOHR) https://history-okeq-org-red5.dev.unicomm.me/files/original/984e7041047c8ba251c838ab623bdf97.jpg 6805ef96313569d75d84b0e8134f07f4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Collection] Oklahoma LGBT+ History Description An account of the resource <strong>Physical Media:</strong> <br /><br /><br /><strong>Digital Media:</strong> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [ND] Progress Pride Flag Subject The topic of the resource Progress Pride Flag